The Infernal City: An Elder Scrolls Novel; Thread #1

Post » Fri May 27, 2011 6:59 am

Since noone has made a thread for it I figured now would be the appropriate time to make it as some of us are about finished or finishing the novel and some spoilers are making its way into the discussion thread for the novel.

Moderator note: I have merged two threads for this discussion. Please let's keep everything here for the time being in hopes not to spoil the novel for those who have yet to read it. This is the official novel spoiler thread so please if you don't want spoilers, refrain from reading it. :)
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Karen anwyn Green
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 7:30 am

I've finished the novel myself, but where do I even start? If people have specific questions, I would be glad to answer them, considering I think if I were to just run with it and detail all the lore in the novel I'd end up confusing more than helping. :P
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Anna S
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 8:49 am

I've finished the novel myself, but where do I even start? If people have specific questions, I would be glad to answer them, considering I think if I were to just run with it and detail all the lore in the novel I'd end up confusing more than helping. :P

What is the deal with Prince Attrebus? Why is he a Prince? And what is his "dark secret"?
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Aliish Sheldonn
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 6:13 am

What is the deal with Prince Attrebus? Why is he a Prince? And what is his "dark secret"?

Attrebus Mede is a prince because he is Emporer Titus Mede's son. And his secret is he is a wimp but everyone thinks he is a hero :P
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Ashley Hill
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 6:52 pm

What is the deal with Prince Attrebus? Why is he a Prince? And what is his "dark secret"?

I won't be using spoiler tags because this is a spoiler thread. I will edit them in however if necessary.

Anyway, Prince Attrebus is a prince because his father is the new emperor of Tamriel (or at least working his way towards that goal). It's really no more complicated than that. :P

As far as this "dark secret," the synopsis was a bit misleading in that regard. I wouldn't really consider it dark, or a secret of his but rather a secret being kept from him. Also far from the most interesting lore of the story, imo. But bnto the point.

Early on, the Prince is described as how Annaig described him: a brave warrior who fought many noble battles, etc. However, it turns out all of these have been a fraud, orchestrated by his father and carried out by all those around him. His father essentially made sure all of these battles and such were won (down to mundane fencing matches) and the prince unharmed. The prince's guard, the court, etc., were all aware of this and Attrebus was basically mocked by all those he thought were his friends, so on and so forth. As Sul put it in the novel, Attrebus wasn't a tenth the man he thought himself to be and could be beaten in a sword fight by a "child with palsy." Despite all this, he's still the courageous and noble prince to the people, the prince portrayed in the stories. So after this little detail is revealed to him, he of course has to accept that, as to be expected, and then aims to actually become the man portrayed in the books about him, so it's not a lie.

Unless I missed it, it wasn't revealed yet why his father was doing this exactly. The book left off for the sequel, or seemed to, so I'm guessing the second book will be directly tied to this one.

Anyway, that's the gist of it. Anyone else who has read the book, if I made any mistakes, please do correct me.

EDIT: Err, yes, what SirDavid said. :P In less words!
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saharen beauty
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 1:12 pm

I remember a remark was made about some new lore (or lore that was expanded on) about the hist? Please shed some light.
Also, no need to get specific about the plot, but is the ending a cliff hanger? Like would the next novel be a continuation of this one? I know that's probably unanswerable, but given the way it ended could you hazard a guess?
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Farrah Lee
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 4:52 am

Thanks for answering :P
Is Titus Mede an imperial? Have there been any major changes in the politics between provinces between Oblivion and the book?
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Jessica Lloyd
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 12:09 pm

INFERNAL CITY ?Very Short Eval

Wow! Okay I read the book and I must say it really took the wind out of my sails. For one it's incomplete. This feels like a ***** part one of two. Nothing is resolved. Attrebus and Sul clash with the evil Vuhon, the Lord of Umbriel. Mere-Glim and Annaig are stuck on Umbriel. Colin is still on the trail of a vast conspiracy which we still don't know the fullest extent of it. I've read a couple books from George R. R. Martin's A Song of Fire and Ice and was bowled over by the depth and complexity of character interaction and dialogue. This 288 page book leaves a lot to be desired in that department.

As far as writing style goes I'm okay with it. I don't held the author totally responsible for the travesty of this novel. He was hamstrung by Bethesda's "official" lore and their world of ES that has of late been a detriment to my ES experience following TES III (Morrowind). I can't see how many authors can be truly inspired to write about a series and a fantasy world not of their own making.

On a personal level, I just don't like the MKesque lore that permeates the book i.e. the 5th era Love Letter, the theory that the White-Gold Tower separates the Mundus from Oblivion. I'm more into the earthly political factions/history of the games that drew me to TES III: Morrowind. Admittedly, I'm biased against overt use of magicka plot devices and here we'll start:

The big floating rock that one of those angry daedra princes lobbed at Morrowind which Vivec stopped using his divine power recently known as the Ministry of Truth finally crashed as Vivec's power waned with his absence. However the velocity was still there, ready to be unleashed. Sul and Vuhon built an ingenium, a machine that continued to hold the ministry aloft but required souls to function. The ingenium exploded. It hurled both Dunmer into Oblivion. The ministry crashed into the city and Vvardenfell exploded a.k.a The Red Year. Vuhon made a deal with the daedra lord Clavicus Vile to feed the ingenium with souls. Somehow Umbra's sword ties into it blah blah blah I don't care.

As much as I didn't like it, I read MK's Love Letter from the 5th era and having read this novel there are shades of MK. In short, Bethesda took one giant crap on Morrowind. Morrowind was totally owned by the Ministry of Truth's landfall and Argonians. Here are the references:

"It's nothing to worry about, if it's dangerous the An-Xileel (Argonian political party) will meet it with the same might that drove the Empire out of Black Marsh and the Dunmer out of Morrowind." (pg 31)

"I loved someone," Sul snarled. "She was murdered. My homeland was destroyed, my people decimated and scattered to the winds. I lost everything." (pg 182)

"Well, there is a whole race of people, for instance, who look a lot like you. We call them the Dunmer, and they used to live in Morrowind, which is what's below us now. Now most of them are gone." (pg 234)
(Mere-Glim the Argonian conversing with a resident on the floating city of Umbriel who resembles a Dunmer)

"There was an explosion," [Mere-Glim] said. "A volcano erupted and destroyed most of their cities. Then my people came in and killed or drove out more." (pg 234)

"The Dunmer have preyed on my people for centuries. We paid them back for that. The few that remain are scattered. Most are on Soulstheim (sic), an island north of here." (pg 235)

"It wasn't enough that the ministry [of truth] fell; the impact caused the volcano that was the heart and namesake of Vvardenfell to explode. Ash, lava, and tidal waves had done their work, and when that was calmed, the Argonians had come, eager to repay what survived of his people for millennia of abuse and enslavement." (pg 261)
(I guess Helseth's emancipation act with the Argonians really paid off in the long term.)

You know you guys at the Tamriel Rebuilt mod website, you can stop creating the beauty of the Morrowind heartland. Just go into the CS and turn ALL of Morrowind into ash and debris. Next, copy-and-paste a bunch of naked Argonians all over the place. Maybe add in a few Dunmer with 100% flee so the hostile Argonians can kill them.

In summary: I'm glad I only paid half price as an ebook download. I don't feel as cheated.
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Vicky Keeler
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 9:05 am

Huh. That actually sounds pretty interesting.

It's not like there's gonna be another game in Morrowind for a loooong time, so I'm okay with Vvardenfell being blown up by the Landfall. Plus, the relationship between the Argonians and Dunmer really appeals to me. Hopefully Elder Scrolls V will be in Black Marsh, so we can see some of this dynamic in action.

So this Umbriel/Umbra thing... I totally called it. :D
Is Naenra Waerr involved somehow, or is it solely Clavicus Vile's handiwork?

The Attrebus the Fraud thing really appeals to me, too.

So, what are these undead like? I take it they're somewhat sapient and resemble Dunmer, but how so? Are they skeletal? zombie-like? Pretty much business-as-usual vampires? Do they have free will?
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Carolyne Bolt
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 5:26 pm

This thread is for discussion of the newly released Elder Scrolls Novel in full. Any discussion of the novel which includes spoilers should go here. Enjoy the discussion and If you have not read this novel and want no information about them until you do, you might want to back out of this thread and speculate in the speculation thread instead.

Enjoy!
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Elisha KIng
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 7:06 pm

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/The_Infernal_City

This should come in handy.
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steve brewin
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 11:41 am

INFERNAL CITY ?Very Short Eval

Wow! Okay I read the book and I must say it really took the wind out of my sails. For one it's incomplete. This feels like a ***** part one of two. Nothing is resolved.


Maybe that is because there is another book coming, if you didn't know that........
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Matthew Warren
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 5:16 am

I remember a remark was made about some new lore (or lore that was expanded on) about the hist? Please shed some light.
Also, no need to get specific about the plot, but is the ending a cliff hanger? Like would the next novel be a continuation of this one? I know that's probably unanswerable, but given the way it ended could you hazard a guess?

Disclaimer: I don't really know that much about the Hist, but I will provide what I understood from what was explained in the book.

The city tree in Lilmoth, Black Marsh, the city where Annaig and Mere-Glim live, has seperated itself from the Hist. It has some kind of power over the An-Xileel (the Argonian term for Argonians that have been living under Imperial rule for too long) and is calling them back to Black Marsh to be killed by Umbriel.

Like I said, I really don't know much about Black Marsh, the Argonians, or the Hist, so this bit may be inaccurate.

As for the ending, yes, it is a cliffhanger. I'm almost positive the next novel will be a continuation.

Thanks for answering :P
Is Titus Mede an imperial? Have there been any major changes in the politics between provinces between Oblivion and the book?


As far as I can tell, the Medes are Imperials. I'm not sure if this bit was in Oblivion, but the Argonians have decided to hit Morrowind while it was weak from the Oblivion invasion and get revenge for their countless years of slavery. They have driven all of the Dunmer to the island of Solstheim in the north.

Huh. That actually sounds pretty interesting.

It's not like there's gonna be another game in Morrowind for a loooong time, so I'm okay with Vvardenfell being blown up by the Landfall. Plus, the relationship between the Argonians and Dunmer really appeals to me. Hopefully Elder Scrolls V will be in Black Marsh, so we can see some of this dynamic in action.

So this Umbriel/Umbra thing... I totally called it. :D
Is Naenra Waerr involved somehow, or is it solely Clavicus Vile's handiwork?

The Attrebus the Fraud thing really appeals to me, too.

So, what are these undead like? I take it they're somewhat sapient and resemble Dunmer, but how so? Are they skeletal? zombie-like? Pretty much business-as-usual vampires? Do they have free will?

I don't remember anything about Naenra Waerr so I think it was pretty much all Vile.

The undead were your typical undead. Rotting flesh, bad smell.. Zombie-like I'd say. They could not be killed by having the heads cut off or being otherwise mutilated. The only way Attrebus and Sul could find a way to stop them was to chop their legs off. There were a few Argonian zombies if I recall correctly.
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Nauty
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 4:34 pm

I remember a remark was made about some new lore (or lore that was expanded on) about the hist? Please shed some light.
Also, no need to get specific about the plot, but is the ending a cliff hanger? Like would the next novel be a continuation of this one? I know that's probably unanswerable, but given the way it ended could you hazard a guess?

Yes, the ending is a cliffhanger. sort of, nobody's hanging off cliffs, but it does end in medias res to be picked up by the next book.

Hist lore: assload. Don't even know where to start. Well, I guess start with the rumors in Oblivion about Argonians vanishing into Black marsh and work your way up. someone else can probably explain it better, it's real early over here. EDIT: Sir david's close, but he has the group name wrong. An-Xileel were the rebels who broke from them, there was another word but it's early and I don't remember.

As for landfall, I just have to say I told you all so. There was one group said it would destroy the world, another said it wouldn't do crap. I said a few threads ago "When a Dunmer says the world will be destroyed or Morrowind will be destroyed, he means the same thing." And when Umbriel failed to hold it up because Sul and Vuhon enantinomorphed (A fights B over C) and the machine that would become Umbriel broke, ka-BOOM! Like everyone thought, it kept its velocity. Then after it hit what little was left of the Dunmer were scattered, mostly to Solstheim it seems, by the invading An-Xileel.

Loads of new Argonian lore doing what I hoped it would. Black Marsh would be a near unplayable area in a game, so have it described and fleshed out in the book.

and Umbra stealing part of Vile and becoming the Daedric Prince of Umbriel, well I didn't see that coming at all. I just figured it for a reference since both the sword and the city use souls of living things for power.

Anyone notice how Vuhon is deliberately trying to make a streamlined, more efficient Dreamsleeve?

And before anyone says it, the only seeming confliction is when Annaig explains the lights in the sky to her new friend on Umbriel as either holes in Oblivion or chunks of Magnus who "made the world." It bothered me until I thought, first off he made the blueprints and second, it makes more sense to explain it to someone who had never heard of stars that way.

This book did exactly what I wanted: give us some new lore and flesh out some old. I was amazed at how many things I noticed from the lore that Keyes used perfectly.
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Dark Mogul
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 8:18 am

EDIT: Sir david's close, but he has the group name wrong. An-Xileel were the rebels who broke from them, there was another word but it's early and I don't remember.

Ah, you're right. It was the Saxhleel that had lived under Imperial rule for too long.
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CRuzIta LUVz grlz
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 1:39 pm

Ah, you're right. It was the Saxhleel that had lived under Imperial rule for too long.

And no Argonian has ever been on Umbriel before. Vuhon would recognize one, I bet, since he seemed to have slaves and some were likely Argonians, but the sumps had never digested and recycled one in their litle Dreamsleeve microcosm. It's turning them all into Daedra, kind of, isn't it? You go through without much of your memories but you come back at last partly as you were?
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Heather M
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 10:01 am

not a big fan of the "landfall," but its definitely workable.

someone explain the dreamsleave thing in more detail. as i understand it the city is taking up souls and somehow...recycling...the bodies?

and Umbra stealing part of Vile and becoming the Daedric Prince of Umbriel,

this also needs more explanation.

some questions:
How did the Medes rise to power, and when? Was there any conflict between the end of the Septims and the rise of the Medes?
Any lore on provinces besides Cyrodiil and Black Marsh?
Is Cyrodiil united, or is it divided on provincial/regional lines?
How are the guilds holding up (ive heard the MG collapsed, what about the others?)
Any obvious mythopoeic symbols around?
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natalie mccormick
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 3:16 pm

some questions:
How did the Medes rise to power, and when? Was there any conflict between the end of the Septims and the rise of the Medes? The book didn't really go into detail about this, and if it did I missed it.
Any lore on provinces besides Cyrodiil and Black Marsh? Other than what has been previously stated about Morrowind, none that I can think of at the moment.
Is Cyrodiil united, or is it divided on provincial/regional lines? United as far as i can tell. Other than the fact that Leyawiin is trying to be absorbed by (I think it was) Elsewyr. Or Elsewyr is trying to absorb it. Something like that.
How are the guilds holding up (ive heard the MG collapsed, what about the others?) Yes, the Mages guild has collapsed, but it has somewhat been replaced by something called the College of Whispers.
Any obvious mythopoeic symbols around? Hmm.. I'm not sure what you mean. Elaborate?

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LADONA
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 8:55 pm

any info on this College of Whispers? does it have a connection to the moth priests by chance? is it controlled entirely by the new government, or is it a more independent entity?

hm, with Leyawiin and Elsweyr, did we get any new info on the Renja Krin?

just forget i ever asked the last question :ninja:

thanks for answering :) its pretty pathetic when a 15$ book is out of your budget :nope:
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Eibe Novy
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 6:35 pm

any info on this College of Whispers? does it have a connection to the moth priests by chance? is it controlled entirely by the new government, or is it a more independent entity? Not much was said about it. I don't recall any connection to the moth priests, though.

hm, with Leyawiin and Elsweyr, did we get any new info on the Renja Krin? Nope, don't think so. (What is the Renja Krin?)

just forget i ever asked the last question :ninja:

thanks for answering :) its pretty pathetic when a 15$ book is out of your budget :nope:

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alicia hillier
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 5:36 pm

The big floating rock that one of those angry daedra princes lobbed at Morrowind which Vivec stopped using his divine power recently known as the Ministry of Truth finally crashed as Vivec's power waned with his absence. However the velocity was still there, ready to be unleashed. Sul and Vuhon built an ingenium, a machine that continued to hold the ministry aloft but required souls to function. The ingenium exploded. It hurled both Dunmer into Oblivion. The ministry crashed into the city and Vvardenfell exploded a.k.a The Red Year. Vuhon made a deal with the daedra lord Clavicus Vile to feed the ingenium with souls. Somehow Umbra's sword ties into it blah blah blah I don't care.

As much as I didn't like it, I read MK's Love Letter from the 5th era and having read this novel there are shades of MK. In short, Bethesda took one giant crap on Morrowind. Morrowind was totally owned by the Ministry of Truth's landfall and Argonians.

Oh dear God.

Well, there goes any interest I had in the continuation of the TES series. What the hell, Bethesda.
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Horror- Puppe
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 9:54 am

Oh dear God.

Well, there goes any interest I had in the continuation of the TES series. What the hell, Bethesda.


My thoughts exactly. :(
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Pixie
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 1:42 pm

A lot of fictional universes are kept so static to please the fanbase, I have to applaud whoever decided to make such a dramatic change. It's kind of sad that people can't get of that. Yes, morrowind is an interesting place, but it's still a small corner of a big universe. And the Dunmer aren't all dead, if you're a fan of them specifically.

In the end, you can read every scrap of lore, but we don't know what has been planeed for the TES world by its makers. Morrowind's destruction could've been planned for a decade now. We don't know!
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Yama Pi
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 6:40 pm

And just because it was destroyed, the next game might take place several decades later, and by that time, Morrowing could be habitable/inhabited once again. And it might be more interesting of a province.
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Ana Torrecilla Cabeza
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 1:57 pm

A lot of fictional universes are kept so static to please the fanbase, I have to applaud whoever decided to make such a dramatic change. It's kind of sad that people can't get of that.

I'm sorry, there's a massive gulf in between 'keeping the world completely static' and 'totally obliterating an entire country and people'. I was actually looking forward to seeing the aftermath of the Oblivion crisis in Vvardenfell. I knew very well that we wouldn't get another game set in Morrowind, but I was expecting to hear about the political fallout from the Empire's collapse, the shift in the balance of power between the Houses, the consequences of the Daedric invasion and Nord attacks - or at least hoping that Bethesda would leave us to speculate on those things for ourselves. What do we get instead? "BOOM!"

I'm sure the novel is great if you're into all the stuff about the Hist and flying undead cities, but the thing is, I'm not. Morrowind is the only place in any of the Elder Scrolls games that actually interested me, and now it's gone - nuked to [censored]. There's nothing left to hold my interest now, and that's all there is to it.
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Nikki Hype
 
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