the joys of no more spell crafting

Post » Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:33 am

I even make once a spell designed to kill a single NPC. I named it 'die Leland!'. Obviously I hate having this feature removed.
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Richard Thompson
 
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Post » Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:54 am

Yes some of them did.

And spellmaking != uberspells
I never used uberspells until I hit level 50 as a pure mage and I suddenly svcked, none of the standard nor powerful spells I had could do significant damage to anything. But thats a flaw of level scaling, not spellmaking nor the previous spell system.



i was referring to those drain health spells that people made that could kill anything in a couple of hits. the only time i ever encountered and npc with a spell that put even my best spells to shame was that lich guy in morrowind. it had paralyze, shock and fire......i think. whatever it was it killed my guy in only a couple of hits. i dont remember anything like that in oblivion.
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Irmacuba
 
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Post » Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:08 am

i was referring to those drain health spells that people made that could kill anything in a couple of hits. the only time i ever encountered and npc with a spell that put even my best spells to shame was that lich guy in morrowind. it had paralyze, shock and fire......i think. whatever it was it killed my guy in only a couple of hits. i dont remember anything like that in oblivion.


But if you are a level 35 plus Archmage. . . shouldn't NPCs with spells that come anywhere near to the power of your spells be exceedingly rare? If they are common, what the hell was the point of going through all that leveling?
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Cat
 
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Post » Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:00 am

Lots of astroturf on this board today......
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Reven Lord
 
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Post » Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:02 am

Spellcrafting should be in skyrim but only because now you can smith your own and weapons and what not. I think the only reason mage was OP in OB is because at lvl 99 destruction you could only do 90pts of damage for 1 second whereas at lvl 100 you could make the spell as powerful and longlasting as you wish if you have said amount of magicka to cast it. I voted agree with OP btw. I like customizing my own hilarious and multiple-effecting spells but never made OP spells or downright useful ones :tongue:

Prefer being a [noob] warrior more than anything but end up making a character for everything.
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Rhiannon Jones
 
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Post » Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:33 am

But if you are a level 35 plus Archmage. . . shouldn't NPCs with spells that come anywhere near to the power of your spells be exceedingly rare? If they are common, what the hell was the point of going through all that leveling?



except that i picked a fight with everyone in the arcane university (who hasnt) and none of them cast any really powerful spells. this was in vanilla after i modded the game with midas and supreme and lame im sure they had more punch. i bet if i look at their spell lists they are roughly the same as most mages in the game. i would expect a spell cast by the archmage or by rominus polus to have alot of punch, but they dont, they are just average spells the same i get hit with by necromancers and other mages. :shrug: if the archmage cant cast a spell that will kill me in two or three hits why should my character be able to make one.

if they left spellcasting in then i would expect the people at bethesda to give the same spells that players creatively come up with on their own to the npcs. how long do you think it would be before people started complaining about how hard mages are cause they keep killing them in a couple casts? if the npcs dont get them, why am i allowed to? personally id love to see mages get those kinds of spells cause it would be one of those "step in their shoes" teachable moments. :) maybe people will starting treating their npcs with a bit more compassion and understanding considering all the abuse they put up with.
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Alex Vincent
 
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Post » Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:51 am

except that i picked a fight with everyone in the arcane university (who hasnt) and none of them cast any really powerful spells. this was in vanilla after i modded the game with midas and supreme and lame im sure they had more punch. i bet if i look at their spell lists they are roughly the same as most mages in the game. i would expect a spell cast by the archmage or by rominus polus to have alot of punch, but they dont, they are just average spells the same i get hit with by necromancers and other mages. :shrug: if the archmage cant cast a spell that will kill me in two or three hits why should my character be able to make one.

What does this have to do with Bethesda svcking up Oblivions leveled lists? This is once again an issue of their level scaling, not spells nor spellmaking.

I'd love to see the more powerful mages to get unique and powerful spells. I would love to, and fear to, encounter a mage that uses a paralysis + frost damage effect. Its not the fault of spellmaking that Bethesda didn't do leveled lists well and made really poor standard spells anyway...
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Mario Alcantar
 
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Post » Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:37 am

except that i picked a fight with everyone in the arcane university (who hasnt) and none of them cast any really powerful spells. this was in vanilla after i modded the game with midas and supreme and lame im sure they had more punch. i bet if i look at their spell lists they are roughly the same as most mages in the game. i would expect a spell cast by the archmage or by rominus polus to have alot of punch, but they dont, they are just average spells the same i get hit with by necromancers and other mages. :shrug: if the archmage cant cast a spell that will kill me in two or three hits why should my character be able to make one.

if they left spellcasting in then i would expect the people at bethesda to give the same spells that players creatively come up with on their own to the npcs. how long do you think it would be before people started complaining about how hard mages are cause they keep killing them in a couple casts? if the npcs dont get them, why am i allowed to? personally id love to see mages get those kinds of spells cause it would be one of those "step in their shoes" teachable moments. :) maybe people will starting treating their npcs with a bit more compassion and understanding considering all the abuse they put up with.


Not only that, but it's one of those small things that makes you "a part of the world" instead of "you are the world and everyone else is made simply to define you as the main character"
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Mizz.Jayy
 
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Post » Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:26 am

What does this have to do with Bethesda svcking up Oblivions leveled lists? This is once again an issue of their level scaling, not spells nor spellmaking.

I'd love to see the more powerful mages to get unique and powerful spells. I would love to, and fear to, encounter a mage that uses a paralysis + frost damage effect. Its not the fault of spellmaking that Bethesda didn't do leveled lists well and made really poor standard spells anyway...



as i said.........if they gave the same spells to the npcs i would like to keep spellmaking in. it would be kind of fun if there was a competition between the players and modders and bethesda themselve as to who could come up with most powerful and crazy spells. but remember most people are going to play on the console where you cant fix npc spell lists so if bethesda ends up giving them so-so spells again you would still have the problem of a newbie being able to make far more powerful and useful spells than lichs and archmages in the game. im all about consistency in my games. to me its no different than a game that lets you upgrade your gun to do substantially more damage and be more accurate and hold more rounds per magazine etc. but doesnt allow npcs to upgrade the same gun. just isnt consistent.
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Neliel Kudoh
 
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Post » Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:19 pm

I agree 100%

the magic system in OB and MW was a joke
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Robert DeLarosa
 
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Post » Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:15 am

I REALLY hope they DON'T discard spellmaking. That's a nice feature which make the magic system more dynamic and diversified.
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Avril Louise
 
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Post » Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:31 am

Wait a minute. Spellmaking is OFFICIALLY out?
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Kate Norris
 
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Post » Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:29 am

as i said.........if they gave the same spells to the npcs i would like to keep spellmaking in. it would be kind of fun if there was a competition between the players and modders and bethesda themselve as to who could come up with most powerful and crazy spells. but remember most people are going to play on the console where you cant fix npc spell lists so if bethesda ends up giving them so-so spells again you would still have the problem of a newbie being able to make far more powerful and useful spells than lichs and archmages in the game. im all about consistency in my games. to me its no different than a game that lets you upgrade your gun to do substantially more damage and be more accurate and hold more rounds per magazine etc. but doesnt allow npcs to upgrade the same gun. just isnt consistent.

So do you mean there being unique premade spells, or if I go and make a spell completely my own other NPC's can then spawn with it too?

If the first, that was never a problem with spellmaking, just laziness on Bethesda's part. Like people who complain about how there was almost no difference between fire, frost, and shock damage, but then assume its because of spellmaking and not because Bethesda didn't have a little more creativity in their design.

If the latter, then I disagree completely. Whats the point of leveling if every other character gets stronger too? That was the worst part of Oblivion, it ruined character progression.
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Captian Caveman
 
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Post » Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:36 am

So do you mean there being unique premade spells, or if I go and make a spell completely my own other NPC's can then spawn with it too?

If the first, that was never a problem with spellmaking, just laziness on Bethesda's part. Like people who complain about how there was almost no difference between fire, frost, and shock damage, but then assume its because of spellmaking and not because Bethesda didn't have a little more creativity in their design.

If the latter, then I disagree completely. Whats the point of leveling if every other character gets stronger too? That was the worst part of Oblivion, it ruined character progression.



lets put it this way. if i as a new wizard can figure out how to make a spell that does 300 drain health damage and weakness to magic effects and some fire and frost damage thrown in as well that kills everything in one shot, why wouldnt the archmage or the other mages who have been messing around with spells their entire lives be able to figure that out as well.

to answer your question, if spellmaking is in then the very powerful mages should get those same kinds of spells. but how long before people get sick of being instakilled by skyrims top mages. i want my npcs to be more than just easy targets to slaughter wholesale. i want them to have access to the same power attacks i have and the same spells i have etc. where is it written that an npc that is the same level as my character is some how forbidden the same goodies that i get. it detracts from the overall gameworld.

i forgot which mod added them but it added health and magicka potions to npcs, not alot but around three or four per npcs. it was a big improvement becuase prior to that unless they had had a healing spell in their inventory unlike me they never used potions. that mod made a big improvement in my view.

the only thing that should be unique to my character are things like dragon shouts in skyrim, fingers of the mountain type quest spells like in oblivion and resist disease and immortality like the nerevarine got in morrowind, once again quest related.

oblivions problem with level scaling wasnt the archamage being a high level like you......in fact he should be the highest leve. hes the archmage. the problem was that every bandit and goblin was the same level.
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Charles Mckinna
 
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Post » Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:02 pm

There is absolutely no reasons why some spells shouldn't be unique.

Being unique doesn't mean üBER.
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maddison
 
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Post » Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:02 pm

There is no joy in removing spell making. A mage who can't make his/her own spells isn't a mage at all.
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Gemma Flanagan
 
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Post » Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:38 am

There is no joy in removing spell making. A mage who can't make his/her own spells isn't a mage at all.

I agree.

Some argument said earlier was that NPC can't do such thing, so why the PC?

Same thing could be said about enchanting and alchemy then. Then shouldn't they also remove them? <_<
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Jay Baby
 
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Post » Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:27 am

i dont know how many people here have played Two Worlds 2, but they had a very good magic creation system. its been awhile but they had several cards and the cards would adjust an aspect of a spell. one type of card effected what element it was whether fire, water, ice, and air i think. another set of cards would determine the type of spell such as a trap or a summon or a cast spell and also self spells like healing and invisiblity. yet another would be a modifier like extra projectiles if it was a cast spell or a health and damage bonus if it was a summon spell. etc. i happened to like that spell because it gave you tons of opportunity to customize your spells but it wasnt so open that you could abuse it with one second insert crazy amounts of effects instakill spells. this seems like it would be a good compromise of a system.

@koldunic....except that lots of npcs had enchanted gear in game. you have to fight npcs to get aegis and umbra and you get tons of enchanted loot as quest items. so in fact npcs do use enchanted gear. npcs do not cast super drain health instakill spells. id like to see more of it. i did wonder why every suit of armor was unenchanted. even if they just had minor enchantments like a small boost to health or something it could add a bit of adventure to looting enemies. in fact they could have it so that once in awhile you stumble across a really good enchanted item. that german mod had suits that you could collect with nice enchatments that dropped as random loot. :)
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Madison Poo
 
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Post » Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:30 am

lets put it this way. if i as a new wizard can figure out how to make a spell that does 300 drain health damage and weakness to magic effects and some fire and frost damage thrown in as well that kills everything in one shot, why wouldnt the archmage or the other mages who have been messing around with spells their entire lives be able to figure that out as well.

to answer your question, if spellmaking is in then the very powerful mages should get those same kinds of spells. but how long before people get sick of being instakilled by skyrims top mages. i want my npcs to be more than just easy targets to slaughter wholesale. i want them to have access to the same power attacks i have and the same spells i have etc. where is it written that an npc that is the same level as my character is some how forbidden the same goodies that i get. it detracts from the overall gameworld.

i forgot which mod added them but it added health and magicka potions to npcs, not alot but around three or four per npcs. it was a big improvement becuase prior to that unless they had had a healing spell in their inventory unlike me they never used potions. that mod made a big improvement in my view.

the only thing that should be unique to my character are things like dragon shouts in skyrim, fingers of the mountain type quest spells like in oblivion and resist disease and immortality like the nerevarine got in morrowind, once again quest related.

oblivions problem with level scaling wasnt the archamage being a high level like you......in fact he should be the highest leve. hes the archmage. the problem was that every bandit and goblin was the same level.


Okay, I agree higher level mages should have spells that reflect that. I agree.

But if I make a 8 frost damage over 30 seconds + paralyze for 4 seconds spell named "Winters wrath" I don't think that the unique spell I made and told no one should begin spawning on necromancers. Its a unique spell I made, onlyI should have that spell. Thats not to mean those necromancers can't make their own frost damage + paralyze spell, but they should not magically know my spell just because it was made by someone.

It wouldn't make sense for other mages that don't consort with me to somehow magically learn all of my spells, even the unique ones I made myself.
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Shae Munro
 
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Post » Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:43 pm

I agree.

Some argument said earlier was that NPC can't do such thing, so why the PC?

Same thing could be said about enchanting and alchemy then. Then shouldn't they also remove them? <_<


That argument is very flawed because NPCs can use enchanting and alchemy, you found in oblivion many NPCs wore enchanted items and drank potions.
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SEXY QUEEN
 
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Post » Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:26 pm

I'd rather they got rid of melee combat power attacks and turned that towards magic.

See how that works?

Yes, you've stated an opinion. So I do see how it works, and I stand by my statement.
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Michelle Serenity Boss
 
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Post » Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:18 pm

@koldunic....except that lots of npcs had enchanted gear in game. you have to fight npcs to get aegis and umbra and you get tons of enchanted loot as quest items. so in fact npcs do use enchanted gear. npcs do not cast super drain health instakill spells.

I agree and I understand your point. ;) But custom spell doesn't have to be instakill. It can be balanced. There is no need to remove spellmaking.

NPC have enchanted gear. But they can't build themselves a complete set of armor / rings / necklace(?) / etc that gives ridiculous immunities / resistance to a bunch of damage.
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Farrah Lee
 
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Post » Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:38 am

That argument is very flawed because NPCs can use enchanting and alchemy, you found in oblivion many NPCs wore enchanted items and drank potions.

NPCs did not make their potions or enchant their equipment. So his statement isn't flawed.
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Rude Gurl
 
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Post » Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:43 pm

Okay, I agree higher level mages should have spells that reflect that. I agree.

But if I make a 8 frost damage over 30 seconds + paralyze for 4 seconds spell named "Winters wrath" I don't think that the unique spell I made and told no one should begin spawning on necromancers. Its a unique spell I made, onlyI should have that spell. Thats not to mean those necromancers can't make their own frost damage + paralyze spell, but they should not magically know my spell just because it was made by someone.

It wouldn't make sense for other mages that don't consort with me to somehow magically learn all of my spells, even the unique ones I made myself.



no no spawning. if you made your own personal spell there is no reason that every npc should have it. just that the high end characters should be able to have the same types of really kick ass spells you can make at the altar.

on a side note i really really really hate reflect anything spells. i wish they would get rid of them entirely.
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Fluffer
 
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Post » Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:13 pm

NPCs did not make their potions or enchant their equipment. So his statement isn't flawed.


and how do you know they didn't, personal I never cared to ask a npc I was fighting "Hey did you make that enchanted longsword that's killing me yourself" or "HEY you can't use that potion because I don't think you made it" no, so I'd say the statement is still flawed, you really come up with the most ridiculous arguments.
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Claudz
 
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