the joys of no more spell crafting : V - Skyrim

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:46 am

That argument is very flawed because NPCs can use enchanting and alchemy, you found in oblivion many NPCs wore enchanted items and drank potions.

lol...

Of course they can use enchanted items and drink potions. But they can't make them. They can't make üBER and unique potions and enchanted gear.

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:23 am

See response up above^^^

lol...

Of course they can use enchanted items and drink potions. But they can't make them. They can't make üBER and unique potions and enchanted gear.

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:01 am

lol...

Of course they can use enchanted items and drink potions. But they can't make them. They can't make üBER and unique potions and enchanted gear.

So? You don't have to if you don't want to. Why tell someone else how they should play their Single Player RPG?

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:38 pm

See response up above^^^

It's a software issu. In Oblivion/Morrowind, NPC weren't able to enchant items/create potions for themselves. It's hardcoded. It's software.

My point is that if we are to remove spellmaking because NPC can't create instakill spells, then why not removing Enchanting and Alchemy because NPC also can't create instakill enchant/potions?

EDIT: Just to make things clear. I want Enchanting / Alchemy / Spellmaking.

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:14 am

and how do you know they didn't, personal I never cared to ask a npc I was fighting "Hey did you make that enchanted longsword that's killing me yourself" or "HEY you can't use that potion because I don't think you made it" no, so I'd say the statement is still flawed, you really come up with the most ridiculous arguments.

Because I know the games and Im not some newb who's never played them. Anyone who knows the games and is a vet knows that they didnt make their own potions or enchant their own equipment. This is also obvious in the CK. Plus I didnt make that argument.

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:48 pm

So? You don't have to if you don't want to. Why tell someone else how they should play their Single Player RPG?

?
That's exactly what I am trying to say.

I am not against Enchanting / Alchemy / Spellmaking. I want those features.

I was just trying to point out the strange end-result logic of removing spellmaking for the cited reasons (end-result I don't want to see). That's all.

I love crafting/making/brewing.

EDIT: maybe I wasn't clear. Sorry for that. I am deadly tired, drank too much tea and have the worst exam possible tomorrow morning. Off to bed then.

I just hope we will still have spellmaking. I'll like Skyrim even if not, but I'll be sad.

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:17 pm

no no spawning. if you made your own personal spell there is no reason that every npc should have it. just that the high end characters should be able to have the same types of really kick ass spells you can make at the altar.

on a side note i really really really hate reflect anything spells. i wish they would get rid of them entirely.

Then together we agree. So Beth needs to make sure level scaling is right, and the leveled lists need to be good, and we need awesome premade spells.

As far as reflect spells, I think reflect spell makes sense. You see it in other lores, mages who can reflect a spell away. I'd like to see a chance that it hit the target, or just flys away though. I'd personally like to see a "shield" spell that is effectively blocking, it sustains as long as you hold the cast button and absorbs damage for you but takes magicka while its sustained and perhaps as it takes damage too. You could separate them into physical damage and magical damage for balance if you wanted. That would work well with the new dual wielding spell system I think.

As far as reflect phsycal damage? I could see it worked differently. I see it as you take the damage, then magically repeat the damage to your foe. Then you would need a healing spell attatched to heal your wounds, and since you still take damage you aren't invulnerable. I can see how you'd reflect a spell back to another mage, but how would you reflect a swords blow back to a swordsman?

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:42 pm

The only problem I had with it was that eventually you would have ridiculously overpowered abilities that made everything trivial.

Instead of creating something from scratch I would rather see another Perk or Talent tree dedicated to additional properties of spells. Like a Fireball would at first just be a single target ability but later on could be upgraded where it would explode on impact causes area damage ( same as spellcraft just without the need to constantly tweak to get acceptable mana costs ) and with each point into the area effect ability the larger the covered area becomes ( 1m , 3m , 5m and so on ) ..ect.

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:01 am

spellmaking can be used to make really game-breaking spell.
i read on gamefaqs than someone made a custom spell:
15 fire damage for 3 sec
15 frost damage for 3 sec
15 electric damage for 3 sec
absorb 10 fatigue
absorb 10 magicka
cast invisible on self for 3 sec

and that made oblivion way too easy even with the slider go to all the way right

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:12 am

Then together we agree. So Beth needs to make sure level scaling is right, and the leveled lists need to be good, and we need awesome premade spells.

As far as reflect spells, I think reflect spell makes sense. You see it in other lores, mages who can reflect a spell away. I'd like to see a chance that it hit the target, or just flys away though. I'd personally like to see a "shield" spell that is effectively blocking, it sustains as long as you hold the cast button and absorbs damage for you but takes magicka while its sustained and perhaps as it takes damage too. You could separate them into physical damage and magical damage for balance if you wanted. That would work well with the new dual wielding spell system I think.

As far as reflect phsycal damage? I could see it worked differently. I see it as you take the damage, then magically repeat the damage to your foe. Then you would need a healing spell attatched to heal your wounds, and since you still take damage you aren't invulnerable. I can see how you'd reflect a spell back to another mage, but how would you reflect a swords blow back to a swordsman?

i suppose a little bit is ok. i just remember in morrowind that i had some items that when i wore them together enemies ended up dying just from attacking me before i even cast a spell or swung my sword. it was worse than having boone in fallout NV where he killed everything in sight before i got a shot off. i dont remember that being an issue in oblivion although i played a heavily modded game where some stuff was nerfed and other stuff was increased so i cant speak for vanilla oblivion. i would have it max out around 5% at most. just enough to help out in a close fight but not so that you can just stand there and let everyone kill themselves. i do like the chance idea for reflect working or not. i kinda wish they had a "spell telekinesis" where you could catch their spell and fling it back at them like you could with explosives in bioshock. might be a bit much to ask for though.

as for the level scaling and all that im confident bethesda learned their lesson and if they are doing it similar to fallout 3 im happy cause i didnt have any issues with fallout 3 leveling. new vegas did it a bit better but they are still making a huge improvement in my view.

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:54 pm

spellmaking can be used to make really game-breaking spell.
i read on gamefaqs than someone made a custom spell:
15 fire damage for 3 sec
15 frost damage for 3 sec
15 electric damage for 3 sec
absorb 10 fatigue
absorb 10 magicka
cast invisible on self for 3 sec

and that made oblivion way too easy even with the slider go to all the way right

Then dont make that spell. SC was as OPed as you made it.

You as in you, me, them, us etc.

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:45 am

except that i picked a fight with everyone in the arcane university (who hasnt) and none of them cast any really powerful spells. this was in vanilla after i modded the game with midas and supreme and lame im sure they had more punch. i bet if i look at their spell lists they are roughly the same as most mages in the game. i would expect a spell cast by the archmage or by rominus polus to have alot of punch, but they dont, they are just average spells the same i get hit with by necromancers and other mages. :shrug: if the archmage cant cast a spell that will kill me in two or three hits why should my character be able to make one.

if they left spellcasting in then i would expect the people at bethesda to give the same spells that players creatively come up with on their own to the npcs. how long do you think it would be before people started complaining about how hard mages are cause they keep killing them in a couple casts? if the npcs dont get them, why am i allowed to? personally id love to see mages get those kinds of spells cause it would be one of those "step in their shoes" teachable moments.

maybe people will starting treating their npcs with a bit more compassion and understanding considering all the abuse they put up with.

Because Traven isn't half the archmage you are, of course. You are chosen, special, gifted, a prodigy. . . if you choose to be. Or you can stop playing with that spell alter and be on par with everyone else. Or you can never buy any upgraded spells and be a two bit hedgewizard forever. Your choice. CHoices. Options.. How we love them. Well, some of us do.

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:46 pm

Then dont make that spell. SC was as OPed as you made it.

You as in you, me, them, us etc.

I'm usually a big fan of "don't want it don't make/use it" in general, however the main goal in any RPG is to become as strong as possible. That should be an almost unreachable goal, the person's point is that it isn't so hard to get that spell and once you do the game loses all purpose. To tell yourself (I will not make this spell because then everything is to easy) is just silly it's not how people play.

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:54 pm

I'm usually a big fan of "don't want it don't make/use it" in general, however the main goal in any RPG is to become as strong as possible. That should be an almost unreachable goal, the person's point is that it isn't so hard to get that spell and once you do the game loses all purpose. To tell yourself (I will not make this spell because then everything is to easy) is just silly it's not how people play.

No it isn't, its to become who you want to be, especially in a game as expensive as an ES. Many of my OB characters were not even worthy, or had no interest in the MQ. My Vamp playboy could rip your eyes out and use them as snuff, but he didnt, he prefers unwilling flash orgies.

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:56 am

In regards to the cluttered spell menu - Morrowind had a very handy option, I believe it was the delete spell option.

I will always be baffled as to why they neglected to include that in Oblivion.

Firstly, implimenting spell-crafting in the game will make spells less unique...

Wait, what? How?

on a side note i really really really hate reflect anything spells.

The way reflect spells worked in Kingdom Hearts is more along the lines of what I would want to see for TES: unchangeable, short duration, 100% effective spells that you could use...IF you had good enough timing. Keeps it from being game-breaking while still being useful fun. The equivalent of Reflega in Oblivion would be "Reflect Spell 100% for 3 seconds on Self". Try actually using that spell, then tell me if you hate it, lol.

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:24 pm

As far as reflect phsycal damage? I could see it worked differently. I see it as you take the damage, then magically repeat the damage to your foe. Then you would need a healing spell attatched to heal your wounds, and since you still take damage you aren't invulnerable. I can see how you'd reflect a spell back to another mage, but how would you reflect a swords blow back to a swordsman?

Oh, that's simple enough. Consider the magic as a forcefield, effecting things like gravity, electro-magnetism etc. If it were sci-fi everyone would go for it. The blow of the sword is absorbed by the spell, it never actually makes contact with the caster, and then the force is re-directed in equal and opposite reaction.

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:34 am

No it isn't, its to become who you want to be, especially in a game as expensive as an ES. Many of my OB characters were not even worthy, or had no interest in the MQ. My Vamp playboy could rip your eyes out and use them as snuff, but he didnt, he prefers unwilling flash orgies.

IC SYSFNT RTGFEE!

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:59 pm

well for me it doesn't matter , because in RPG i always play warrior first. maybe with some low leveled spell and medium lock picking technique and high personality

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:05 pm

No it isn't, its to become who you want to be, especially in a game as expensive as an ES. Many of my OB characters were not even worthy, or had no interest in the MQ. My Vamp playboy could rip your eyes out and use them as snuff, but he didnt, he prefers unwilling flash orgies.

TRE WYASA ACMAGA. :shifty:

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:52 pm

IC SYSFNT RTGFEE!

I dont know what that means, but to add on to my previous post. If the point of an RPG, especially an ES was to be the most powerful you could be, everyone would be a JOAT with all stats maxed at 100.

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:57 am

I dont know what that means

and I'm very sure you don't want to know with it means.

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:39 am

and I'm very sure you don't want to know with it means.

Then why post it? It must be an insult.

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:17 pm

TRE WYASA ACMAGA. :shifty:

Google translate doesn't recognize this. If you are making an actual comment, please translate.

I agree with Xarnac. If RPGs were about absolute power by any means, I'd just cheat. Its about the progression to me, not the end result.

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:50 pm

Then why post it? It must be an insult.

Not exactly an insult but could be taken the wrong way.

Google translate doesn't recognize this. If you are making an actual comment, please translate.

I agree with Xarnac. If RPGs were about absolute power by any means, I'd just cheat. Its about the progression to me, not the end result.

And you're half right, it's not about the power it's about the journey. You grow in the journey in many ways each level you gain makes you stronger and more able to fulfill your quest whatever that quest might be, once you reach the destination you become near godlike which is when the game typically becomes boring.

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:37 am

And you're half right, it's not about the power it's about the journey. You grow in the journey in many ways each level you gain makes you stronger and more able to fulfill your quest whatever that quest might be, once you reach the destination you become near godlike which is when the game typically becomes boring.

It is fun to play a god, and yeah it gets boring. Thats why a lot of people like exploits, to toy with occasionally. But you can choose to use those exploits or not. I chose to use non-exploitative spells. In fact, my favorite was weak fireball, perfect AoE and duration. I would lower the difficulty just to use it. You don't have to use exploits, so all exploits can do is offer you the chance to cheat, but its not fun to cheat for normal gameplay, and no one forces you to. So the exploit arguement is crap to me.