the joys of no more spell crafting : V - Skyrim

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:04 am

If spells end up being Perks down that skill path then there would be no way to create new ones.

Spells aren't perks, but there are perks to enchance spells.

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:50 am

In Morrowind I used customs spells a lot, simply because base Magic wasn't powerful enough to handle the high-level enemies. Especially enjoyable was a custom spell that summoned a Ghost, Skeletal Minion, Bonewalker, Greater Bonewalker, and Bonelord all at once. It wasn't very useful in the end, but mini armies were fun to watch. Multiple Daedra, on the other hand......

In Oblivion, I created custom spells to deal with the highest scaled creatures like Minotaurs. Taking out custom spells would be a pretty big deal for me.

» Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:53 pm

I can see why they have done it, but I think it will probably severly effect the fun factor of playing a mage in the long run. Also, roleplaying a mage would be pretty crap if all these other mage npcs can clearly make, and even sell spells, and you can't. Surely it is a basic requirement of playing a magic-based character to be able to create spells, instead of relying on a muddle of different pre-brought ones?

» Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:34 pm

I assumed Enchantment involved Spellmaking?

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:08 am

The spread sheet part comes from an interview with Todd Howard where he himself describes the spell making system as such

yes, and I adressed how I thought that he did not mean to say that meant they were planning on scrapping spellmaking but add new types of attacks that makes it so that spells aren't just how much damage they do, for how long, in how much space. but adding new features that are not based on numbers like the new ones that have been talked about by bgs.

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:36 am

I can see why they have done it, but I think it will probably severly effect the fun factor of playing a mage in the long run. Also, roleplaying a mage would be pretty crap if all these other mage npcs can clearly make, and even sell spells, and you can't. Surely it is a basic requirement of playing a magic-based character to be able to create spells, instead of relying on a muddle of different pre-brought ones?

Well it's not like they'll really be selling you spells, just training for the spell. Lets say magic is universal like the periodic table of elements, the 45 or so spells in the game are like that table of elements, you don't really make them you just make use of them.

» Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:18 pm

I assumed Enchantment involved Spellmaking?

Hopefully, which brings up the next part.

If spell creation was too "spreadsheety", which it wasn't, then WTF was enchanting? It was the same system, not only that but they've made it even more "spreadsheety" in Skyrim, giving it back its own skill. I guess the creation kit is too sprreadsheety too. Lets just get rid of everything that makes us think, or anything that adds customization and RP variety and just play a mindless action game.

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:10 am

I'd still prefer to have it. Your own spells would be unique, not the standard. The only way to have a unique spell is to have mixed effects, otherwise its just a fire spell with different strengths.

» Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:11 pm

I'm truly surprised by all the nays against the change. I mean of course I expect the people who can't fathom change (I of course will not name them), but people who can't grasp how this new system will actually work for the better. Surely that's my opinion, but I believe that once it's seen and used many of the nay-sayers now will have a change of heart. Once again, a bit surprised. (still I don't know of it being confirmed, but it seems very likely since you can combine spells)

» Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:42 pm

I'm truly surprised by all the nays against the change. I mean of course I expect the people who can't fathom change (I of course will not name them), but people who can't grasp how this new system will actually work for the better. Surely that's my opinion, but I believe that once it's seen and used many of the nay-sayers now will have a change of heart. Once again, a bit surprised. (still I don't know of it being confirmed, but it seems very likely since you can combine spells)

Some of us actually care what we are given and we know that equipping a spell to both hands and even both feet for that matter doesnt replace the almost limitless possobilities of spell creation. Spell creation with this new magic system would make it that much better. And like always, if you just dont like it, you dont have to use it (assuming Beth gives you efficient pre made spells).

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:59 am

I find it hilarious how you dismiss other peoples concerns as "resistant to change" as if Change automatically = a good thing? Level scaling was a change, was that good? random loot placement devoiding all reasoning to explore was a change, was that good? I mean I go through a 4 level dungeon to open a Very hardlock chest and find an Iron sword....as if I didnt have 8 of those already.

and in my honest opinion, I don't know what your trying to do, but your threads are really flame inciting........just a side thought really.

» Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:03 pm

Some of us actually care what we are given and we know that equipping a spell to both hands and even both feet for that matter doesnt replace the almost limitless possobilities of spell creation. Spell creation with this new magic system would make it that much better. And like always, if you just dont like it, you dont have to use it (assuming Beth gives you efficient pre made spells).

Well I actually do like spell creation, however it was not limitless the only way to make it limitless is if you cheated to get your magika way way up, I for one metagamed it as high as possible, and was still not able to do half the creations I tried. A game without magic creation, we'll see how it goes, I for one do think it'll be much better for it, but we won't know until we try it.

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:33 am

The problem is, not all spells will be built ideally. Here's a bit of an extreme example:

Let's say this spell is available

Spell01
Fire Damage on Target
Weakness to Lightning on Target

If spellcrafting were available, I could buy the spell, delete it, and make this:
Lightning Damage on Target
Weakness to Lightning on Target

Spellcrafting also allows for immersion of identity. For my Paladin, I would make:

Holy Light
Absorb Health on Target
Turn Undead on Target
Light on Target

But if they don't include it, that's fine. That's what mods are for

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:46 am

I do not want to be able to make spells. Firstly, implimenting spell-crafting in the game will make spells less unique and it will complexify the spell-making-'prosses' of Bethesda, which means they will have to cut out some spells out of the game and use more time and effort on adjusting this problem. Hope you guys all agree, 'cause the magic and spell-slinging will be a 100x better without spell-making.

edit: Just think of Enchanting as 'spell-making'. There are at least a customizing-edge to it - and that'll do, right?

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:40 am

I find it hilarious how you dismiss other peoples concerns as "resistant to change" as if Change automatically = a good thing? Level scaling was a change, was that good? random loot placement devoiding all reasoning to explore was a change, was that good? I mean I go through a 4 level dungeon to open a Very hardlock chest and find an Iron sword....as if I didnt have 8 of those already.

and in my honest opinion, I don't know what your trying to do, but your threads are really flame inciting........just a side thought really.

I never did "dismiss other peoples concerns as "resistant to change"" I said I'm surprised how many people are against the change, there is a big difference. I also didn't say it's automatically a good thing. I do think it's a good thing doesn't mean it will be (as my now previous post states). I find just about everything you mentioned ridiculous things in the game.

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:57 am

Well it's not like they'll really be selling you spells, just training for the spell. Lets say magic is universal like the periodic table of elements, the 45 or so spells in the game are like that table of elements, you don't really make them you just make use of them.

that just takes the fun out of magic completely for me.

also something that I thought of in address to having spells that get stronger as you get stronger, naturally its safe to assume that as they do get stronger they cost more magicka. it would later become a huge disadvantage to have spells leveled so high that it becomes wasteful to use of weaker enemies, which is bad if you are playing a pure mage.

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:53 am

I don't have that much of a problem with it. Hopefully your spells' power goes up as you level. I like to be able to custom tailor spells though, so I might miss that just a little.

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:08 am

I just dont see how somthing that has a predefined amount of creations is better than something that is almost limitless, like spell creation. Losing spell creation loses a third of my builds.

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:00 am

There's no reason to remove spell creation and every reason to keep it.

lolwut? Could you rephrase that, dear sir?

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:09 am

that just takes the fun out of magic completely for me.

also something that I thought of in address to having spells that get stronger as you get stronger, naturally its safe to assume that as they do get stronger they cost more magicka. it would later become a huge disadvantage to have spells leveled so high that it becomes wasteful to use of weaker enemies, which is bad if you are playing a pure mage.

That is something to consider, and likely bethesda has/will make arrangements to balance that.

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:52 am

lolwut? Could you rephrase that, dear sir?

There's every reason to keep spell creation and no reason to remove it.

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:50 am

There's every reason to keep spell creation and no reason to remove it.

You have to admit, there are some reasons to remove it.

» Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:19 pm

naturally its safe to assume that as they do get stronger they cost more magicka. it would later become a huge disadvantage to have spells leveled so high that it becomes wasteful to use of weaker enemies, which is bad if you are playing a pure mage.

If you are a pure mage you will choose to increase your magicka after you level up, thus compensating for more magicka-consuming spells.
Particularly, I'm all for spells that level as their magic school increases. Having 5 different fireballs in Oblivion (10 damage fireball, 25 damage fireball and so on) felt so wrong.

» Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:39 am

*sigh*.......

again...what part of my statements citing "changes" in Oblivion was not clear to you Zone do you really think people want -exactly- what previous games offered in Spell creation? if they are improving other aspects of the game why not improve spell creation, instead of giving us Fable spells? yes I agree the examples i gave are ridicoulosu, they are in game and they are the cause of change I hold heartedly agree, finding a iron sword in a hard lock chest at the bottom of a dungeon IS ridiculous

» Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:50 pm

*sigh*.......

again...what part of my statements citing "changes" in Oblivion was not clear to you Zone do you really think people want -exactly- what previous games offered in Spell creation? if they are improving other aspects of the game why not improve spell creation, instead of giving us Fable spells? yes I agree the examples i gave are ridicoulosu, they are in game and they are the cause of change I hold heartedly agree, finding a iron sword in a hard lock chest at the bottom of a dungeon IS ridiculous

I must say that statement was confusing, starting with the word Zone, but glad we agree on the chest, I mean seriously a pewter cup in a heavily locked chest, and maybe a fork...