But there isn't, if you dont like it, dont use it. Just like the person that plays ES games as a thief only. He doesnt like magic, or melee combat, so he doesnt use it.

What would the faux reasons to remove it be?


Too spreadsheety? Good, I like depth and freedom. I like to actually have to think and not rely on muscle memory. If its too complicated for you, then dont use it.

Over powered? Remove stacking

What other fallacious reasons are there to get rid of it?

Now lets look at all the reasons to keep it. customization, depth, variety, RP mechanics, its totally optional.

ha ....k lets break it down


I agree the examples I gave are ridiculous, they are a result of your insinution that change is good.

and I won't repeat because the rest is up there clear as day.

Think he meant this particular change in general. He said the change rather than most/all.

Personally, spellmaking to me makes no difference to me as I don't use it. Though I may if it's done right. If its through enchanting

Well I don't agree with any of those negatives "spreadsheety, over powered" and what not, I'm fine with both of those even with stacking. I think there are possibilites to be found, near infinite even. Say you have 45 unique spells. You can combine two spells at once, that equals how many spells? I won't bother with the math, but it is a lot. Also as a previous person sad having a fireball spell that does 25 set damage is just wrong in a RPing sense, when you get stronger your magical abilities ought to be stronger as well. Those are some good reasons,

You never listed any negatives about spell creation though. What are these negatives? Whats wrong with the totaly optional system? If we juat dont need spell creation, then we dont need enchanting, or any crafting. We dont need alchemy either.

no, no, no. you missed the entire point. your magicka increases as well but you are still using an attack spell that is way over kill on weaker enemies and that spell is always going to drain a signficant chunk of your magicka (unless leveled spells are cheap and unbalanced) and even though you magicka regenerates, as a pure mage all you do is use magic so if you are fighting a combination of strong and weak enemies you can't switch from your strong but expensive fire spell to your weaker but more effiecient and better suited for killing weaker enemies fire spell.

and they are already solving the issue people like you are saying they had with spells, they are adding new features that will make it more than just having fireball spells that only vary in damage but vary in attack styles like traps.

as far as adjusting or compensating for spell creation's removal, there is no need to. as far as any one is concerned spell creation is in. this has only become a rumor that its not because todd critisized the system as it was calling it spread sheety, which is no where near close to saying that its being cut. the new spell features makes the spells more than just variations of numbers, and spell crafting won't feel so "spread sheety" to some people.

Well the problem with an option system in "this" case is that it'd destroy the system that's trying to be put in place. Now for the rest how do you reason that without spell crafting we don't need enchanting "any crafting", and alchemy?

No it wouldnt. It would enhance it. And the latter part of my post. Why have any crafting if we cant have spell creation, its all "spreadsheety"?

I understand how an optional system being in place does not destroy it. But how does having the option in place enhance the optional system in question?

Ok I have determined that there is no point conversing with you. As I have stated that spreadsheety does not bother me at all, and spellcrafting has absolutely no relationship to a weaponsmithing skill, armorsmithing, enchanting, or alchemy. So from this point on your post will be ignored by me.

Just wanted to state my opinion again

Spellcrafting allows me to create spells that are classic to my role. I can make a spell like this!:


Holy Light

Absorb Health
Light on Target
Turn Undead on Target

Well they're all optional crafting skills. I think that's his point.

I like your opinion :thumbsup:

Duel wield spells gives us X amount of spell combinations, adding in the ability to create more in depth, adds Y. X+Y= more than just X. Still totally optional, but more in depth with more of those optional options.


Good. Because you've given absolutely no reason on why it should be removed.


Hence the RP customization opportunities. A fine example.


Pretty much.

The thing here is that we don't know if spellcrafting (as we understand it from Oblivion) can work in Skyrim.

Spellcrafting allows us to set up a spell with customized spell effects, damage, duration and area of effect. The question is, which of this four dimensions will be modifiable in Skyrim?

If spells indeed level up with your magic skills then perhaps damage cannot be customized
If spell combinations are in and are limited, then perhaps you cannot combine any spell effects you want together (the game wouldn't recognize those combinations as valid)

If the above is true then spellmaking will have to reinvent itself or simply disappear.

whoa whoa, take a step back here. destroy the system trying to be put in place. based on what info. no one here even fully knows what that system is much less its compatability with any thing. and what system are we talking about. the new spell types? thats not a system, that just more details being put into spells, spell crafting has not had any breaking affect on any spell system. and thats the point of something being optional, supposing it will break the system, it only breaks when you use it. Its safe to assume that you don't really use spell creation since you have said you don't like it and there is no point in the game where you need to use it for any purpose than at your own leisure. so why not leave it in because I am pretty sure people like me and xarnac would use spell creation even if it was a little broken. you wouldn't be negativly impacted in this hypothetical situation.

But they have no effect on this issue in Skyrim so it's nonsensical. The reason that an optional spellcrafting system would break skyrims purposed magic system is two handed magic, which involves combining and boosting, needs a set amount of standards to create the effects and to help keep the game balanced and enjoyable, with oblivion you really didn't have good effects it was like others said they were all the same, some explained that for the "spreedsheety comments" and I agree that magic being all about numbers was wrong. Though in general, like in oblivion, I have no problem with it at all, but I think skyrim taking a new approach is ok and I think that it will turn out for the better. For one I like many have faith that Bethesda is doing its best to make skyrim the greatest game ever and wouldn't take it out if they didn't think it'd be better for it.

Thanks!

I can agree that there are issues with spell crafting. But instead of removing it, they could simply change it!

-No more number tweaking. You choose effects in the spell. The numbers can be adjusted by your school levels, cast type, etc
-As always, some effects should be banned from spell creation.

If Bethesda cuts spell crafting, they will have cheated themselves. They draw inspiration from player ingenuity, and to remove outlets for that is to deprive them of a resource for ideas.

So you have created spells take two hands to cast. Not to mention the whole duel wield spell gimmick is the culprit here, not exactly what the spell effects do now. I just see them trying to copy Fable 3, just some gimmick to appeal to newbs. People that thought spells didnt look good enough and couldn't use their imagination. theyd rather have linear, good looking spells, opposed to the freedom of spell creation with less spectacular visuals. Not to mention, the spells from the trailer dont look all that better than the ones in OB.

In conclusion, spell creation and the new magic system are not mutually exclusive and they would actually make each other more deep if combined.

Really? I felt that the current magicka system was more akin to Demon's Souls.

there is no reason to assume that spellcrafting is not compatable in SK, the only reason to think that was if they stated that spellcrafting was removed but did not specify why. but this is not the case. the removal of spellcrafting is not only a rumor, its has not been confirmed by any thing. again, the only thing we know in regards to SC is that todd called it spread sheety, which could just as easily mean he did not like how it was before and intends to improve it.

and the thing of duel weilding spells (combining and boosting? where is that from?) and balance depends on if duel wielded spells stack, thats the only scenario in which they would unbalance the game (and we still don't even know the half of how duel wielding will work) but other wise thats not even where this debate started as to why they would be removed. any ways, I think this is enough input from me. I am not trying to change peoples minds here and I am not going to believe that SC is out until its made with a literal confirmation where a dev says "its out". Just thought it'd be fun to do this discussion.

I'm a PC user, so if there's no spell-making, I would have to use the creation kit to make my spells. Making spells allows me to get the same effects that Beth is going for in Skyrim, i.e. I combine a frost damage spell with a drain speed spell to slow my opponent, or a shock spell with paralyze or whatever they are going to do. I also like to customize my spells to my class, so I don't have an assassin who throws fireballs, but one who can cast a custom spell that increases his agility, sneak and marksman, something that wouldn't be included in the game.

If could be combined, which I find them to not be possible. Once again it's not confirmed out (to my knowledge) however as many have said if something is out they'll mod it back in. I for one wish I could mod nudity in, but alas I will have a PS3

Why duel wield magic? whats the point? They are just reusing the duel wield weapon system and implementing it with the magic system. If they want to have magic cast only when there's no weapon in hand, then just use the Morrowind system. I dont see any point in this duel wield magic system, other than it just being a Fable 3-esque gimmick. I'll have absolutly no problem with it as long as theres spell creation though.

I figured spell creation would be made more in depth in Skyrim, not outright cut (presumably).

Not trying to argue, Im just pissed that they might cut one of my fav features, that was in all of the previous TES games.

I don't have an answer to that, but I hated the magicka system in Morrowind. It made casting inferior to potions or enchantments. A delay for switching weapons to cast (not counting staggers), and then a delay to cast. Yuck

But anyway, I wouldn't really worry about spell crafting getting the axe. That's what the creation set is for :thumbsup: