The Last War?

Post » Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:07 pm

True, but that seems unlikely. Lorkhan created Nirn, not Alduin. Does Alduin even exist or is he just Nordic mythology?


Nono. None of the gods exist in that sense. Give http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/varietiesoffaith.shtml a read, you'll see that each culture ascribes a certain personality to a god. Like wise from the monomyth each culture ascribes a similair story to their gods. For example the events from the Aldudagga involve Lorkhan stealing from Alduin, creating the world and being punished for it, just as it happens in Heart of the world describes how Lorkhan is defeated by Alduin. Both however take a totally different angle to the story, obviously because they view the gods and their actions in different ways and put different amounts of importance on different aspects of the story.
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^_^
 
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Post » Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:55 am

Nono. None of the gods exist in that sense. Give http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/varietiesoffaith.shtml a read, you'll see that each culture ascribes a certain personality to a god. Like wise from the monomyth each culture ascribes a similair story to their gods. For example the events from the Aldudagga involve Lorkhan stealing from Alduin, creating the world and being punished for it, just as it happens in Heart of the world describes how Lorkhan is defeated by Alduin. Both however take a totally different angle to the story, obviously because they view the gods and their actions in different ways and put different amounts of importance on different aspects of the story.

Not to mention the Nords have both Shor and Greedy Man.
But who the hell knows how Kalpas relate?
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Dalia
 
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Post » Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:52 pm

Damn. I forgot where the hell the word kalpa originated?

Is it Nordic? Yokudan?? Someone please appease one who is too lazy to look.
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Mark Churchman
 
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Post » Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:21 pm

alduggaggashelashindinvas.

alguggagdelvishingas?

aldeguddashedavibingas?

something?
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john page
 
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Post » Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:45 am

Not to mention the Nords have both Shor and Greedy Man.


Greedy Man is only in the Skaal village, and is most likely Padomay.
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jennie xhx
 
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Post » Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:07 pm

Greedy Man is only in the Skaal village, and is most likely Padomay.

No, he's not and no he's not. Padomay is the Adversary, if anyone.
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Leonie Connor
 
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Post » Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:32 pm

Greedy Man is only in the Skaal village, and is most likely Padomay.

If I'm not mistaken, padomay is only a force, not something that can act with true intent and reason.
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Lyd
 
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Post » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:43 pm

No, he's not and no he's not. Padomay is the Adversary, if anyone.


Greedy Man = alternate name for the Adversary
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Prohibited
 
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Post » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:25 pm

Greedy Man = alternate name for the Adversary

Um, yeah, source?
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Tania Bunic
 
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Post » Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:20 pm

Um, yeah, source?


"The Adversary has many aspects. He appears in the unholy beasts and the incurable plague. At the End of Seasons, we will know him as Thartaag the World-Devourer. But in these ages he came to be known as the Greedy Man."

-The Story of Aevar Stone-Singer
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George PUluse
 
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Post » Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:34 am

"The Adversary has many aspects. He appears in the unholy beasts and the incurable plague. At the End of Seasons, we will know him as Thartaag the World-Devourer. But in these ages he came to be known as the Greedy Man."

-The Story of Aevar Stone-Singer

Greedy Man is the Adversary in the same way that Lorkhan is the soul of Sithis.
Adversary vs. Allmaker is self explanatory. Greedy Man is clearly Lorkhan, as we saw in the Alduggaga. They are both Padomaic and one begot the other, hence our confusion and the vague offhandness of the storyteller. It even fooled Brian S. But they are not the same.

Greedy Man is Lorkhan but the Nords don't know it, for they revere Shor. Adversary is just their name for 1, the antithetical half of the enantiomorph, be it Padomay or Alduin. Thartaag is probably a reference or stand-in for Alduin, who also eats the world. Nordic myths are not exact and empirical. Purpose and imagery is more important to meaning than nomenclature.
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Alexandra walker
 
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Post » Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:29 pm

If I'm not mistaken, padomay is only a force, not something that can act with true intent and reason.


Correct, but this doesn't stop people from humanizing it anyway. Think of thunder gods, rain gods, ect.

---

Alduin is more then Akatosh, more then time. Alduin is more like Satakal which is Satak and Akal, Anu and Padomay. A personification of the eternal cycle of destruction and creation, which holds time but also beginnings and endings.
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Jacob Phillips
 
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Post » Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:49 am

Greedy Man = alternate name for the Adversary

I believe the Greedy Man was the mortal avatar of the Adversary.
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His Bella
 
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Post » Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:58 pm

Correct, but this doesn't stop people from humanizing it anyway. Think of thunder gods, rain gods, ect.

A children's Anuad doesn't seem to help things either.
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sally R
 
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Post » Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:40 am

I believe the Greedy Man was the mortal avatar of the Adversary.

The Greedy Man isn't mortal. If he was portrayed as a mortal or a minor god in the Aevar story then it was likely another Shezzarine.
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IsAiah AkA figgy
 
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Post » Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:41 pm

I starting to wonder if the Greedy Man was NOT the Adversary, as said in the Story of Aever Stone-Singer but had it pinned on him for taking the Gifts of the All-Maker as punishment for their laziness. Because anyone making their life harder MUST be the Adversary.

The Adversary sounds more like a Daedra Lord, or multiple ones.
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Kelly John
 
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Post » Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:21 pm

All-Maker=King
Adversary=Rebel

He's the antagonist personified. At one time it was Padomay, and Padomay begot Lorkhan, the Greedy Man. The Greedy Man is the Nords recognizing someone else's cultural version of Lorkhan, while still reserving Shor as their own. We saw more of this in the Five Songs of King Wulfharth.
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Andy durkan
 
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Post » Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:10 pm

He's the antagonist personified.

In that case, can one really pin the title on any one god or daedra, especially when the Skaal only see an All-Maker and an Adversary?
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dav
 
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Post » Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:04 pm

It's the Adversary to the All-Maker from which everything comes. It's a duality similair to Anu-Padomay, Anuiel-[censored]his, etc.

The Adversary comes in many forms, so that would include all the Daedra but more accuratly anything that poses challenge. The Greedy-Men maps to Lorkhan because he took their essence, just as he took the essence from the Altmer.
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Marie
 
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Post » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:11 pm

It's the Adversary to the All-Maker from which everything comes. It's a duality similair to Anu-Padomay, Anuiel-[censored]his, etc.

The Adversary comes in many forms, so that would include all the Daedra but more accuratly anything that poses challenge. The Greedy-Men maps to Lorkhan because he took their essence, just as he took the essence from the Altmer.

And because he made life harder for the Skaal (even if it supposedly was punishment), the Greedy Man was considered one of those forms.
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Sophie Louise Edge
 
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Post » Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:55 pm

And because he made life harder for the Skaal (even if it supposedly was punishment), the Greedy Man was considered one of those forms.

An embodiment of it. Notice that they revere Lorkhan as Shor, but since King Wulfharth supposedly fought against the guy underneath Red Mountain(Five Songs), he gets slapped with the negative Greedy Man label. It's a rather unique way of regarding the gods.
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Emilie Joseph
 
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Post » Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:37 am

An embodiment of it. Notice that they revere Lorkhan as Shor, but since King Wulfharth supposedly fought against the guy underneath Red Mountain(Five Songs), he gets slapped with the negative Greedy Man label. It's a rather unique way of regarding the gods.

The Skaal seem to place most mythical forces into the AllMaker-Adversary duality, which one depending on whether they have helped or harmed them.
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Kate Norris
 
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Post » Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:25 pm

Lol...[censored]his...

To CP: except for the fact that they appear to place that on the World-Eater, too.

In a rough sense, as others have said, it's placed on anything that can [censored] them up, and I'd say ending a kalpa goes into that bag..
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Cameron Wood
 
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Post » Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:17 am

The Skaal seem to place most mythical forces into the AllMaker-Adversary duality, which one depending on whether they have helped or harmed them.

Allmaker and Adversary aren't Anu and Padomay, though.

Look at it the Altmer way. In the beginning there was Anu. The forum calls it Godhead and the Nords call it All-Maker. His very existence necessitates the existence of his other, his opposite, the Lorkhan to his Akatosh, his Adversary. So Anu splits into Sithis and Anuiel. It is a matter of perspective whether the All-Maker being was perfect order and untapped potential or a void where nothing happens. Neither are comprehensible without the relative perspective gained from observing the opposite. 1 and 1 make 11, remember. So All-Maker is pre-Anu/Padomay. He is also known as the One in Cyrodiil.

Or think of it like binary code. There is a question, and the question has an answer that is either =1 or =0. In the beginning there is a question and the answer is =1 because Yes, something is there. But =1 or Yes is meaningless without =0 or No. And suddenly we have two answers.
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Chris Duncan
 
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Post » Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:16 pm

Allmaker and Adversary aren't Anu and Padomay, though.

No, but the Skaal seem to see the All-Maker and the Adversary as a duality, although not the same one as Anu and Padomay. The forces that help the Skaal are attributed to the All-Maker, and visa versa.
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Luis Reyma
 
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