The Legion and tech

Post » Wed May 09, 2012 12:02 pm

Let me get the obvious out of the way, the Legion is brutal, the Legion is savage, the Legion is at best neutral morally speaking and that in itself is a long shot. But those things aren't my big problem with the Legion because honesty for a fictional faction taking place in a wasteland those things simply add to the texture of game, plot and world. If anything bothers me about the Legion is it's use of technology. See it seems everyone on these forums and probably anyone who played the game enough thinks the Legion doesn't use any tech but that's not the case. They use guns and even some pretty advanced weapons like the Super Sledge, Ballistic Fist, and Anti-Material Rifles. They have access to artillery, and have even tried acquiring Energy Weapons. Further to build the Fort took some level of construction and engineering skills, and some Legion outside of the Mojave use Stealth Boys.

It's clear to me the Legion accepts technology to these extents, they then stop at creating small amounts of industry so they can have real armor instead of football pads and savaged armor. They forfeit the chance of creating a unified weapon selection like the NCR with the Service Rifle. Instead they let massive numbers of recruits die trying to attack people with guns and somehow chalk up surviving to a metric test of ability! To add insult to injury they won't allow real medicine to be used except by Caesar and his auto doc. Within the 4 states the Legion controls there are probably massive amounts of pre war stimpaks that could be used to heal Caesar's army! Why lose a Centurion with over a decade of experience when he could be saved from his infection so easily?

My problem with the Legion isn't really the barbarity of the faction, but rather how ineffective Caesar makes his forces through self-imposed limitations.
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TRIsha FEnnesse
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 2:15 pm

Let me get the obvious out of the way, the Legion is brutal, the Legion is savage, the Legion is at best neutral morally speaking and that in itself is a long shot. But those things aren't my big problem with the Legion because honesty for a fictional faction taking place in a wasteland those things simply add to the texture of game, plot and world. If anything bothers me about the Legion is it's use of technology. See it seems everyone on these forums and probably anyone who played the game enough thinks the Legion doesn't use any tech but that's not the case. They use guns and even some pretty advanced weapons like the Super Sledge, Ballistic Fist, and Anti-Material Rifles. They have access to artillery, and have even tried acquiring Energy Weapons. Further to build the Fort took some level of construction and engineering skills, and some Legion outside of the Mojave use Stealth Boys.

It's clear to me the Legion accepts technology to these extents, they then stop at creating small amounts of industry so they can have real armor instead of football pads and savaged armor. They forfeit the chance of creating a unified weapon selection like the NCR with the Service Rifle. Instead they let massive numbers of recruits die trying to attack people with guns and somehow chalk up surviving to a metric test of ability! To add insult to injury they won't allow real medicine to be used except by Caesar and his auto doc. Within the 4 states the Legion controls there are probably massive amounts of pre war stimpaks that could be used to heal Caesar's army! Why lose a Centurion with over a decade of experience when he could be saved from his infection so easily?

My problem with the Legion isn't really the barbarity of the faction, but rather how ineffective Caesar makes his forces through self-imposed limitations.
Well look at it this way, If you survive 25 years in the Legion your pretty much sound!
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hannaH
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 4:45 pm

Well look at it this way, If you survive 25 years in the Legion your pretty much sound!
Until a First Recon/Veteran Ranger shoots you in the head/you get basic disease and die from lack of proper medical care/you get too old and get replaced in a deathmatch vs. a younger member.
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pinar
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 6:45 pm

Well look at it this way, If you survive 25 years in the Legion your pretty much sound!

Well, yeah, you will end up with a very small number of long-time veterans who are tougher than a bull and got lucky a lot along the way... but in the process, you lost a huge number of potentially great (or already great) soldiers to wound infections (the big killer in any pre-antibiotic/low-medicine society), perishing to wounds that require a modicum of medical technology and knowledge and treatment to survive, and random disease. The Romans had the best medical treatment known at the time, for their citizens. True, it wasn't very great by modern standards, but they didn't just let injured men die who could be saved to fight another day with a bit of care. NV's Caesar, on the other hand, just lets 'em die without even trying hardly at all (healing powder? mmm, k). That is just stupid.
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Janette Segura
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 12:39 pm

Well, yeah, you will end up with a very small number of long-time veterans who are tougher than a bull and got lucky a lot along the way... but in the process, you lost a huge number of potentially great (or already great) soldiers to wound infections (the big killer in any pre-antibiotic/low-medicine society), perishing to wounds that require a modicum of medical technology and knowledge and treatment to survive, and random disease. The Romans had the best medical treatment known at the time, for their citizens. True, it wasn't very great by modern standards, but they didn't just let injured men die who could be saved to fight another day with a bit of care. NV's Caesar, on the other hand, just lets 'em die without even trying hardly at all (healing powder? mmm, k). That is just stupid.
Agreed, and then there's another problem too. Let's say you have a Legion recruit who isn't that good at fighting but is smart as hell- o wait he just got shot down by a random NCR trooper in the Southern Nevada while trying to charge with a rusty machete. The Legion just waste human resources, even if your whole society is dictated towards war that doesn't mean every able bodied male needs to be a [censored] soldier. They've already shown signs of specialization with that Legion blacksmith and Dale that trader but those don't seem to be the norm.
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Clea Jamerson
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 7:27 am

Well, yeah, you will end up with a very small number of long-time veterans who are tougher than a bull and got lucky a lot along the way... but in the process, you lost a huge number of potentially great (or already great) soldiers to wound infections (the big killer in any pre-antibiotic/low-medicine society), perishing to wounds that require a modicum of medical technology and knowledge and treatment to survive, and random disease. The Romans had the best medical treatment known at the time, for their citizens. True, it wasn't very great by modern standards, but they didn't just let injured men die who could be saved to fight another day with a bit of care. NV's Caesar, on the other hand, just lets 'em die without even trying hardly at all (healing powder? mmm, k). That is just stupid.

I agree, the Legion's biggest weakness is their lack of medical technology. Tribal medicine only goes so far, and it certainly won't stop a bad infection. In other words stimpaks, med-X, and auto-docs > healing powder, bitter drink, and witch doctors
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Sweet Blighty
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 5:53 am

Legion uses herbal medicine.
Allow me to remind you all about the Healing Poultice which is capable of healing broken limbds through the entire body.
Legion isn't certain to have "that" particular herbal medicine, but since they rely on herbals I doubt they don't have a lot of variations.

So the "Legion can't use medicine, they are weak", is not really a valid statement.
Herbal medicine is inferior (most of the times) to chemical medicine, but it doesn't mean that they don't use "any" medicine.

So I'm sure they have tons of medicine back in their homeland.
Just cause they don't use stimpaks doesn't mean they don't use herbals.
Just because you can't see a doctor doesn't meant here aren't any doctors in Legion lands.

The ban is on chemical substances. Not on medicine itself.
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Iain Lamb
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 8:01 am

Legion uses herbal medicine.
Allow me to remind you all about the Healing Poultice which is capable of healing broken limbds through the entire body.
Legion isn't certain to have "that" particular herbal medicine, but since they rely on herbals I doubt they don't have a lot of variations.

So the "Legion can't use medicine, they are weak", is not really a valid statement.
Herbal medicine is inferior (most of the times) to chemical medicine, but it doesn't mean that they don't use "any" medicine.

So I'm sure they have tons of medicine back in their homeland.
Just cause they don't use stimpaks doesn't mean they don't use herbals.
Just because you can't see a doctor doesn't meant here aren't any doctors in Legion lands.

The ban is on chemical substances. Not on medicine itself.
Yeah but the question then becomes why stop at "herbal" medicines? It's such an arbitrary line, and I'm pretty sure on hardcoe mode that healing powder crap doesn't heal limbs. In any case what makes you think they have better treatment back home? The leader, second in command, top spy, top strategist and top generals (the Centurions) are in the Mojave by the end of the game, and while they have better weapons there is no sign of better medicines, except Caesar's auto doc which is an exception.
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Andrew Perry
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 7:38 pm

Yeah but the question then becomes why stop at "herbal" medicines? It's such an arbitrary line, and I'm pretty sure on hardcoe mode that healing powder crap doesn't heal limbs. In any case what makes you think they have better treatment back home? The leader, second in command, top spy, top strategist and top generals (the Centurions) are in the Mojave by the end of the game, and while they have better weapons there is no sign of better medicines, except Caesar's auto doc which is an exception.
Probably because they have problem transporting or producing the herbs in the Mojave.
I dunno.
I'm just saying that they don't have a ban on "all" medicine, just chemical substances.
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Nadia Nad
 
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