Many people have been asking for a new leveling system and say that the current one is broken an i wonder what do they have in mind?

Personally i think the actual system is close to the best we can get since you get what you did. in those words i mean that with an XP system for exemple you leveled up exclusively killing creatures with your sword. and then when you level up you put 10 points in marksman aint that stupid? Where did you earn those marksman skills? Through training? Through experience? No.... nothing.
The actual system rewards what you do correctly. if you train in blades you get to eventualy level up and since blade using is related to strenght its perfectly normal that you strenghten through your training on blades than becoming more ''wisdomful'' ,


Any better suggestion than the current system?

Perhaps a better way would be to tie the skills to the attributes, so that leveling your skills increases your attributes automatically. Then tie all leveling increased factors to your attributes, like health and such.

well i saw your older thread about removing speed and luck and all it does is break the so fragile balance of the game

What is the balance of the game?

its not about making a different leveling system, its about refining the current one.

adding things like exp scalling, which means that to gain more exp at higher levels, you need to cast higher level spells.

or

adding/removing/altering skills to be more intune with the game, instead of sticking strictly to the way that the skills were in MW and OB



haha i would hardly call TES games fragile mate!
i dont think a fragile game would allow for so many game changing mods

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?showtopic=1152580&view=findpost&p=16873351

making the way of leveling and the power of each specialization equaly appealing to every class. in your proposition theives had to master 1 attribute to be at 100% capacity(agility). warriors had to master 2 attributes(str and en) and mages had to master 3 attributes(int wis per)

The problem I have with the current system is it's next to impossible to level up certain skills in their higher levels. I'd always find myself attacking horses with a low powered dagger for hours just to increase my blade skill or continuously casting Starlight to level up Illusion. Also, in the current system you could level up all the skills of your character without ever increasing your overall level. I'd have a level 7 character who was a master of 10 skills because I didn't want to have to fight impossible to kill Deadra.

you system has way too many useless things in it. perception can easily be merged with wisdom and alot of skill are just plain for the sake of a little specific thing YOU PERSONALLY want to do. also faith as an attribute doesn't realy makes sense it can be merged with luck.

however the multiple attribute reliance makes sense

That was posted in a thread suggesting the removal of attributes. It surprises me that you would suggest merging perception and wisdom and not dexterity and agility. Care to explain your reasoning for that? Was it based solely on my usage of them in the skill set? If that is the case then I would refer you to the description of each attribute and what it represents. Given more than the 3hrs it took me to mock that up I'm sure it could be better balanced. As for the # of skills, it is necessary to accommodate the trades and in fact could use a few more.

If its like the last game im suing :brokencomputer: :

or you could help make a corrective mod

Do NOT make the attributes increasd automaticly by levelling skills. The most fun part of TES when leveling is to wait for the Attribute Screen and wisely pick 3 attributes of your choise.

And also there could be issues in hybrid classes. If I want to play a hybrid class that uses Strenth and Intellenges, and still want to regenarate my magica fast, then I would have to force myself in using skills that increased Willpower, even if it is skills that is not my Major skill i would have to use them against my will so I can increase my willpower. Dont like the thougt of it at all.

That's not an option for the console game

I would like for leveling, Core Attributes and Health/Stamina/Magica to be reflections of skills gained. Gaining them in particular fashion can tweak things a bit along with basic racial, astrological, and archetype choices. I just want to play the game, not fight the system. The game should get harder on the basis of distance from civilization (dark alleys, sewers, etc not withstanding) and on one's reputation among the various factions; and reward accordingly.

Yepper. With mods like http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=mods.detail&id=2030, http://www.oblivionmodwiki.com/index.php/Kobu%27s_Character_Advancement_System, or http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=13879, I don't have to suffer through that micromanagement crap with the +5 point that popup in my sleep while making the game "seamless" and fit to my "role" as warrior, mage, whatever build I made.

I think the cap should be lvl 100 from the get go. I liked oblivion's level system, you can't use the fallout system.

balance! in ES games... LOL

anyway.....

I would love to see a new system where leveling is no more and we can more or less just "level" our skills like Gothic sort of. so our character starts out as an average Joe THEN as we play the game we decide what we want to be, I think this idea gives MORE freedom of choice than the old crappy system that never worked well in morrowind or OB for that matter.

so you want to become a mage, then you have to learn spells, and how to advance you magic powers from other mages, and from quests, and books.

you want to be a better archer, you pick a bow and practice, then learn from a master, then train some more and learn secret abilities from wood elves or something (like multiple arrow shot, focused hit, disarming arrow, silencer arrow...etc)

the old leveling system was the worst most idiotic system ever conceived for an RPG game, play dark messiah! you level your skills and the game combat/stealth/magic is 10000 times better than oblivion, and that game has like 1% as much stuff as oblivion!!

anyway I prefer to see something new, anything other than OB system.

I hope they make +5 attribute modifiers standard on level up, I hated the way you had to powerlevel to get the most out of your character and keep track of your skill increases. I also hope they rework the way endurance gives health to just give health depending on attribute level and prehaps level and not force you to max it early on to get that extra health on level up. These mechanics just prevents me from enjoying the game, knowing I will miss out and be punished for it later on.

And also as The Stone mentioned, the way you can max out non class specified skills without gaining levels is a little dumb, maybe make it required to reach 20 level points to increase level where class skills counts for 2 while miscellaneous skills count for 1?

Change the way skills progress by giving the same amount of skill experience for 5 hits from a 5 damage dagger as a single hit from a 25 damage sword, instead of making us save that rusty dagger for late game leveling.

And finally make an absolute level cap for all characters no matter what race and skill combination you create. I haven't given much thought of how to do this, removing racial skill bonuses and let the players distribute the points across major skills is the only alternative I can think of right now, but I suppose that would remove some of the uniqueness from the races.

Those are my only gripes with the current levelling system, it makes me plan ahead how my character should evolve and what character setup yields the best fighting chance instead of just playing naturally and enjoying whichever route the game takes me.


I know much of this is fixable with mods, but I still feel it's poor design and, once you understand the mechanics, controls you in a sense and makes all your characters evolve in a similar path. Not to mention console players who are stuck with this design.

perhaps..but no one cares about console's



i played oblivion with one character and got up to lvl 42.
my major skills were the ones that i thought i would use most and enjoy using.
not once did i think about "how many skill increases" i had from that level.
i still enjoyed the game fine and diddnt have much trouble in battles (bar goblins..they svck period)
maby your just over thinking the leveling process, in which case its your own fault and not that of the leveling system.

scaling svcks, thats all

Many of the problems with the leveling system will cease to matter if Bethesda learns from the past and minimizes auto scaling in Skyrim.

Something else that could help considerably is once again allowing one to train to his/her hearts desire and making certain skills advance far quicker than others. That might help make it less necessary for people to run around mindlessly casting Alteration/Illusion spells, or creating 1 sec Conjuration spells, or finding other such workarounds to allow them to level such skills in a timely fashion.

There is clearly a problem when such behavior is as widespread as it is in the Elder Scrolls series.

P.S.

I still care about consoles.

I just think the way endurance and health is handled is uneven, you can level attributes in different ways and end up with the same end results, however if you neglect endurance early on it punishes you in the long run, forcing you to either level it or play as you please knowing it hurts your max health. I'd say removing the endurance based health gain would balance it out like the rest of the attributes allowing you to level as you please without purposely worsening your end stats.

The way attribute modifiers are managed is just a nuisance that, once again, makes you rethink how you use your skills and may end up dictating your playing style because you don't want to impose a handicap when you know how to easily avert it.


I do play relaxed and careless to these mechanics, I just think this is an imbalance that can easily be sorted out. :tongue:

Some have suggested that your health should be 100+Endurance, so the max health for a person would be 200. That way everyone stays in a good range of health without anyone needing to load up their endurance from the beginning.

I completely agree. The leveling system should stay the same. It rewards your actions and doesn't just give you random skill points to dump.

It only gives you random attribute points to dump.