i liked the times of Dagerfall, where i could create my Spells like i wanted them. And the open Door Spell, WtF my Mage need to learn lockpicking with 81 Jeahrs. :shakehead:

Er, you could make frost traps in Oblivion spell creation, which is nothing more than what runes are now. Its not like new delivery systems and spell creation are mutually exclusive anyway.

I so miss spellmaking. I used to make this lovely little AoE DoT. I'd hurl it in the general direction of what I was fighting, and then run like a fragile little chicken. Once it wore off, I'd turn around and toss another one. Plague of Lightning, how I miss you.

Calm down.

Could you imagine the runes? You could have paralyze runes, and poison runes, and summoning runes, and calming runes, and raging runes, and damage attribute runes, and heal runes...It might actually make me want to use runes...

Well, if the goal of removing spellmaking was to make mages alot less fun to play, then I declare it a smashing success.

Overpowered or not I loved crafting my own spells in Oblivion to see just how ridiculously overpowered I could make them. It was part of the fun of the game. I was Arch Mage after all, I should be able to do some major spell pwnage. I may try a more magic oriented character next time, but my usual Spellsword/Battlemage type character from Oblivion has been laid to rest.

You're complaining too much, take it down a notch.

I don't think he is the one who is going to be banned with that attitude of yours.
Anyway, if people want it back (the majority surely seems to want it back) Bethesda is bound to (and should) listen. Also it is a rational request. not some pointless, irrational ranting.

Funny thing is, how many wanted it gone, or were OK with it gone before Skyrim came out. Now that its out, its true fans have arisen. I could count on my hands before release, the people that were advocates of spell creation. Now its the other way around with the majority wanting it back in.

And what I'm saying is that if you take the time to be rational in making that request, you are more likely to get some kind of response instead of being ignored.

Complaining is not rational. Did you know that people don't generally like those who just complain about things?

And I'm sorry if my attitude of stating things in a straightforward, reasonable manner is offensive to you, how should I state the previous? With more exclamation points and smileys? Would that make you feel better?

@ Erandur: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

Here is an attempt at reason. Perhaps each succeeding game in a series should actually retain the features and elements that were successful in the previous games instead removing them. Perhaps newer games should add features and elements to those that were already in previous games in order to make the newer games bigger, better, and more versatile. You know, actually make newer games PROgress in quality and scope instead of REgress.

Is that a reasonable enough expectation... or even a request?

Ps. If it's a choice of regressing in one area in order to progress in other, I would be most happy to lose the pretty graphics and realistic voice dialogue in order to have much deeper gameplay and more choice options in quests/dialogue that would come with text. After all, isn't that what The Elder Scrolls is based on? Choice, choice choice? It seems that the only choices are being made by the developers, and they are making the wrong ones in terms of gameplay.

I was making an observation of this forum alone, not a statement of fact on how secular people are in regards to spell creation. Try again.

you honestly believe the loss of spell-making was worth runes and flashier effects?

... i dont think you like playing mages. if a flashy looking trap is all it takes for you to overlook a massive loss in variety and customization, i think your better off playing a sneak or something.

Okay, I'll make it easier for you.

Substitute "no true Elder Scrolls fan" for "No true Scotsman" in any of its examples.

And I haven't exactly seen all that much of complaining about the spell making being gone, just more of the complaining about Destruction being underpowered at higher levels.

But don't let that stop you from reaching for that shiny star!

I never sa'id no true fan of the elder scroll's, I said true fans of spell creation, so why would I substitute that anyway? Did you read my posts?

Ive seen nearly every spell creation topic in this forum since Todd came out with "Spreadsheety". The grand majority were supported by people that didnt care if it was gone, or actually wanted it gone. Most were fan boys. After release, every thread Ive seen on spell creation has the majority in support. Why? Because a lot of people made accounts when Skyrim released, or afterwords. That weren't all of the old guard forum members.

modders should just adopt the spell creation system from Oblivion, maybe improve it a lil

I'm willing to bet they just couldn't figure out how to do it right, which is understandable I guess. Dev teams become a closed idea ecosystem that makes it difficult to think outside the box once the general strokes of a game are set down. Its okay, modders will show the way, just like they did with the Oblivion archery mods and circlet mods etc etc that ended up getting incorporated into the vanilla game for Skyrim. Whichever mod has the best implementation will inspire whatever system gets put into TES VI.

A system exactly like Oblivion's is probably not doable in Skyrim at any rate.

In the meantime, I bet every single Skyrim DLC will include new spell tomes to try and cover gaps in the currently available spell selection. I doubt any will include an unlock spell tho.

Wait, what?

The prevailing mood I felt was one of cautious apprehension at best, i.e. "I hope you know what you're doing, and these "unique" spells had better make up for the loss of freedom". I saw several longtime TES mage players dismiss the concept outright and balk at the idea of being the magical equivalent of a "script kiddie".

I was willing to give the new magic system a chance. It has some good ideas like cone AOE spells and runes, but overall it removed far more variety than it added. Apart from clairvoyance, I can't find any spell effects that weren't in earlier games. Furthermore, the inability to scale up spell effects means that only one or two spells from each school are actually useful (note that the cone AOE and rune spells become useless almost immediately). Seeing that all of the "new" spell effects would be entirely implementable with the old spellmaking system, I see no reason why it couldn't have been included, especially given that it would drastically increase player customization.

I think the best bet is with the modding community for this one, although it all depends on how powerful the construction set is.

There were a whole lot of 'didnt cares' and 'wanting it gone' before release. I watched the advocates take on 10-15 members at a time in rebukes. Ended a lot of polls in the same way on the subject. A lot of times it boiled down to getting the thread closed, they were so heated.

That is reasonable, yes, and it comes across so much better when you read it back to yourself, doesn't it?

That's why I suggested that, because people are generally more receptive and willing to respond to something like this as opposed to complaining, or worse, keyboard mashing. The better you can state your case, the more inclined an audience you are likely to have.

It's like with the recent patch: Which would you find more helpful if you were having to fix something for someone? Being told that it's broke and being shouted at to fix it; or being told what happened when it was noticed that things were messed up, in what ways was it messed up, and whatever pertinent details that might apply to the given situation?

And making a reasoned argument is the same way, compared to just complaining and demanding that things be added back into the series.

If I didn't want to be helpful, I'd just encourage the complaining and keyboard mashing, so that what you would have to say about the matter would end up being summarily ignored.

Mind, I'm not meaning just you, personally, but anyone who really wants to make a case for Bethesda putting spellmaking into Skyrim. I don't care much about the fact that it's gone, so it's not something for which I intend to expend any effort. But you and some others do, and there's always a better way of making your case so that you're not just ignored for keyboard-mashing rabble.

Maybe a DLC will give more spells.

Yes, we all move on, After we make it abundantly clear that we don't want another Elder Scrolls game without custom spell creation.

This was what I thought... until I played a mage. The new spell system is in no way as complex as I was expecting when I first started playing, it's actually quite simple really... too simple to make up for the lack of spellmaking IMO.

So then substitute whatever set of words it is you want that satisfies your labeling, I don't care for specificity, I assumed you were observant and intelligent enough to realize that.

I don't really care if spell creation is added back in, or not. There is a lot more to Skyrim and the Elder Scrolls than that to me, and I can find more than enough to enjoy. And moreover, with knowing how entrenched in the lore this series tries to stay, the lack of magic's prominence in Skyrim makes perfect sense, given the region's culture and its attitudes towards magic.