I noticed that in my own opinion the members of the mages guild have ben slowly getting weaker and in oblivion there was little challenge in beating the factions storyline in les than 4 hours...I dont know though it might just be me....

you taking 4 hours is a reflection of gameplay, not of lore. I think the guild's ability to take on and beat Manimarco is a reflection of its growing strength. the fact that they were able to enforce the ban on necromancy also illustrates this: people had nowhere else to go, and had to submit because the Mages Guild was such an omnipresent and power-wielding structure throughout the empire.

Wait a sec!

Wouldn't have meant the MG had become so weak they had to resort to such a drastic measure?

they were fighting what they perceived to be a god. they probably thought it more economical to kill off one mage and end manimarco for sure, as opposed to sending a couple dozen mages and risking their death with no guarantee of success.

but really, the quest line didnt make total sense to me im just theorizing and extrapolating

The Mages Guild did take some hits. Half of the council of mages resigned when Traven took over and banned necromancy, and the necromancers hit them several times. That said, however, the necromancers also got hit pretty hard too.

Yet, the guild seems to continue being pretty restrictive.

You ask me, they're trying to act too much like a political power than a school. Like I keep pointing out, The original found of the MG quit because it became too bureaucratic. And if you ask me, the bureaucracy is hurting the MG

well, the book answers this pretty clearly.

Well it still seems to me all things MG related are in a "last chance" state. Necromancers should never have gotten so powerful and able to hide so well I mean come on who doesnt recognize the smell of rotting corpses?

Ugh, do you honestly believe being a necromancer automatically makes you evil? Read my sig, it's actually what necromancy really is, and it does not require souls to reanimate bodies.

If anything, Traven's personal vendetta in trying to ban a legitimate practice was the start of the MG's undoing.

Makes sense, they were a political group tied in strongly with the Septim Empire.

I never said they were evil but as the enemy of the mages guild if the guild still had the power they were supposed to how could an enemy grow so strong against them?

The necromancers we saw were part of the mages guild. However, Traven kicked them all out, and was ready to arrest every single one of them, using their private police force to do it. Imagine working on a legitimate practice all your life. Suddenly, some high and mighty [censored] bans it, and goes after anyone who has dabbled in it. That is what the necromancers were going through. It was either run away, or get arrested and at best be forced to stop the practice and have an ever watchful eye on you.

It just so happened there was a powerful one, going by the name of Mannimarco, who gathered all of the recently disenfranchised necromancers who now have been completely ostracized by the magic community, and is willing to give them vengeance.

You ask me, the Mages Guild were the bad guys in this, and did it completely under the guise of being "good."

It's only logical that with the decline of the Septim Empire, the Mages' Guild loses much of its power and influence.

Traven's anti-necromantic zeal was merely a symptom of a larger issue. If you examine real-world politics, often when a country, company or other institution is failing they'll elect some new firebrand with radical ideas as their leader as a last ditch effort to turn things around, and more often than not this plan fails and the organization collapses.


It didn't help their chances that the Septim line officially ended and Titus Mede came to power out of the vacuum left by that vacancy. The organization that was the Mages Guild no longer exists in that form. I think there's no need for spoiler tags here - this is the lore forum. The College of Whispers, at the time of the events of the new novel, is essentially filling that vacuum. It's likely this will replace the Mages Guild in a similar function in the future games, or at least the next one.

Well it would be hard to put if the Mages guild would go on a down turn after. Sure Bruma's guild is now burnt down but a lot still remains. But then again what does the player "character " do the mages guild after. That's the problem , then again is what the player character did is canon just when does the character die and new mages guild leader appears.

well untill we have more information i am going to assume that the hero of cyrodiil has mysteriously vanished (i.e. become Sheogorath)

i havn't read the book yet, but i don't intend to anyway. can anybody elaborate on exactly what it says about the "college of whispers", i.e. does the book give away any more information about the organisation, other than its name. it sounds vaguely thu'um-esque to me

The Mages Guild is fine, as you see their activeness in politics in lore with the Empire.

They will fall when Tamriel goes to hell, turning into a cobb of violence. For now, they are good, and still exercising power.

(Eh...I haven't read the new book yet...)

I thought we agreed it wasn't Mannimarco or the Marcomanni, it was the devs playing darts with a storyline.

He'd be my first choice to sacrifice too.

All the guilds that were guilds (not thievies!) fell with the Empire. The only thing that made them organizations were the standards they enforced through the power of the empire.

From the first few chapters, the Mages Guild is no longer an official organization of magic. There are some "members" who have been graced with the goodness of their new owners of their old chapter houses to honor their "membership", but in reality, they're pretty much no longer official and are hardly any left in general. If there were a sizable amount in Lilmoth, it has really fallen into bad times, because there are only 4 or 3 Mages Guild "members" that live in the old chapter house, which has been turned into an alchemy shop.

From what it seems, the College of Whispers and the Synod are the only imperially recognized organizations of magic. Of what they do, I don't know so far. In the book, there are students who talk and stuff, so I assume the College of Whispers is now the new Mages Guild that formed when Titus came into power, and recognized them and the Synod as the only official magic organizations.

thanks loads, this is very interesting
i would read the book, but i would only do so to gain little tidbits like this, as i couldnt care less about the actual story and characters
what is the Synod? a Synod in real life is basically a gathering or organisation of religious leaders i.e. bishops etc.
it seems to me that the Synod would be the equivelent of the mages guild bureaucracy and council, and the college of whispers would be equivelent to the chapter halls/arcane university system of education and practical functions
of course, the book could contradict that. is there anything regarding my thoughts?

From what I have read so far, what I provided is the most I really know about them. They seem like two distinct organizations, and that's all I got

Judging on the real-world images the word "Synod" conjures I would guess that perhaps more religiously motivated spellcasters would join this organization - perhaps similar to the Imperial Cult or Temple factions from Morrowind.

I may be completely wrong of course. They may have simply chosen that word for its phonetic qualities and not its actual meaning.

We'll have to wait to be certain, but a logical assumption is that the College of Whispers is the secular magic organization and the Synod is more the magely branch of the Nine Divines religion.

sounds logical

That's "sounds logical, captain," dammit!

You're not my captain! Only Captain Crunch is my captain!