Here is the Image I am talking about: http://chorrol.com/files/671/Aurbis.jpg

I do apologize for the overall quality, as I could not find a better image anywhere online, and so that was taken with my cell phone off my TV.

But to the Crux of the matter, does the mages guild symbol, symbolize the Aurbis, the Universe? The eye in the center seems to represent magnus, the et'ada who left magicka in nirn, so the Guilds appreciation of his unwilling sacrifice is obvious.

The Eye is within a Sun, the Sun being Magnus, again. And the 'rays' of the sun are numbered at eight, the original number of divines.

And toward the outer rim of the circle are, surprise, surprise, Sixteen half-diamonds, and coincidently there are Sixteen Daedra Princes.

Am I reading to much into this?

Reading too much into it? Heh-ll nooo...

*saw the Wheel in the quick menu icon*

Oh, yeah. The spokes of the wheel are numbered at sixteen. I get it now!

Could be. Whether they're trying to put the pattern of the universe on their symbol is well, up to you (even if it's pretty obvious). The only slight interesting part is the Eye of Magnus. Sun symbols are on every stained glass on every Mages Guild in Cyrodiil. But, well Magnus is the god of magic, and the Mages Guild makes him an all-too important patron.

You can see it nice http://www.imperial-library.info/spells/

It makes sense to me, and being the snooties they are, I wouldn't be surprised. But given the motives of Oblivion, I find it hard to believe it's intentional. I don't remember the Wheel being mentioned once. But, hey, maybe I'm just being a pessimist.

Says they guy who wrote the statue article.

But I agree with you in both places.

Edit: Or rather, it's not a coincidence. More like concept recycling.

Interesting how the void spaces are named. Some have repeated names. (Note the number of "Filled circles", "Unfilled circles", and "3/4 moons")

If they are trying, they are missing some basic sigillum in their nomenclature. Thus, the employment of this construct as a power symbol seems to be faulted. It would likely result in a dangerous failure.

It is more likely a "stylized" logo, created in the 'Form' of a power symbol. The letters probably spell a word, rather than representing voids.


I wonder if they would notice if somebody were to 'Fix' it.......

Nothing much. Banolity kills mythopeia, and the Adoring Fan has that hanging over his bed.

It's Magnus, the largest source of Magic from ?therius.

No. but it does thrive on subtlety. Creating a logo in the form of a power symbol would grant the logo some miserable (and faulted) power, and could have subtle influences outside the mage's guild as well, especially as the symbol gets proliferated and associated with magic and its practice. (It simply being burned into the minds of (thousands? millions?) of imperial citizens as the emblem of the imperial mage's guild would give it a power of its own in the mythic sense. This could be seen as a kind of second order simulacra.

so, I wonder still-- Do you think anyone would notice if you fixed it? ;P (This would turn it back into a first order simulacra, and change the nature of its influence.)

one thing I also just noticed (while looking at the picture though i'm not fully certain that the lines fully connect) is that the Iris of the eye also ends up resembling an eight spoked wheel... *gasp*

edit: actually, i'm not so sure that those lines leading to the pupil do connect, so i'm probably just full of it

What do you expect? Galerion the mystic created the guild, the fact that he would employ so many mythic power symbols into his new order's logo just goes to show how steeped in the art he was.


(So, we have the Aurbis of Magnus's design, and "The Scarab/Nu Man" in the middle. The point of the new man is to become like god-- to become a whole world, like the one which spawned him, and dream in love of the beings he has created. )


I still dont think that he saw the tower though. Only heard of it.


(note how the center is empty.)

The Mages Guild are rather too worldly for advanced metaphysics, aren't they? Relatively speaking. Or am I doing them a disservice?

Well, CURRENT mage's guild members are, but I was talking GALERION the mystic here--- you know, a graduate of the crystal tower, and a member of the Psijiiic order? Yeah-- THAT guy.

Most of you have probably realised this, but the Daedric letters are simply abbreviations of the Schools: ALT(eration), DES(truction), MYS(ticism), ILL(usion), CON(juration). Presumably Galerion (or whoever designed the Guild's logo) didn't like Restoration and Alchemy much, or didn't consider them important enough to include.

What about Thaumaturgy? It just sorta fade out?

How much does the pic that Brian S linked to look like http://www.imperial-library.info/dwemer/dwemer-thing3.jpg when counting the mandibles?

If it does, then it would be nice to know what those particular mandibles represent, 'cuz a certain Prophet of the Landfall was clicking out prayers with his.

Finally, remember that Cyrus the Restless had to manipulate a beetle/scarab to utilize the Dwemeri observatory.

___TWM

Could you not say that Thaumaturgy could be Mysticism or Illusion or them both as with them you can change reality and Thaumaturgy is the "teaching of wonders". So they could be the same.

And by dividing one teaching of magicka to two you get more spells and is able to keep the different "classes" of magicka in a more orderly order.

Except that both Mysticism and Illusion were around in Daggerfall alongside Thaumaturgy. The only School we have now that we didn't have then is Conjuration, which has absolutely nothing in common with Thaumaturgy.

One could argue that the Warp In The West changed the world, not just the Iliac Bay, since the Underking part of Talos' release in TES II allowed Talos to become the ninth Divine by TES III...PLUS all of a sudden there is a new race - the sons of Talos known as the Imperials.

Considering that we are discussing the Mages Guild symbol, its relation to the Aurbis and spoke-letters referring to a school of Magic, is it any wonder that Talos' ascension (which would meddle and fortify the Great Wheel) would not also consolidate and meddle with the Magical Schools?

Additionally, and alternatively, the Fighters Guild in the Aibibon-Gora region of Hammerfell is called "The Fighter Trainers" even though it operates under the same Second Era Guild Act enacted by Potentate Versidu-Shai. Logically, one could consider a situation where some of the Mages Guilds in the Iliac might also have some unique teachings, such as a unique nomenclature for spell effects, even going so far as to call them wholly separate Schools.


___TWM

Yeah that. Let's leave the Warp in the West in all of this.

The Warp in the West definately changed many things in strange ways forever. Unrelated and random things. But if you name anything specifically I'm still going to roll my eyes. It's like blaming this March rain on Climate Change.

Paws...you're a Sload. :cookie:

Heh heh. And you got that way via first class Numidium wave-riding!! :woot:

On the subject of Thaumaturgy: I never really played magic based characters in Daggerfall, so I don't fully know what spells were in that school. But I thought I remember seeing a description of it somewhere as being 'blood magic'.

Could someone clear this up a little for me?


EDIT: after a quick search at TIL, I find that I am completely mistaken. Please, take no notice of my foolishness

http://www.imperial-library.info/spells/index2.shtml#6