So... the main story (nor overall lore for that matter) has never been The Elderscroll's strongest suit. With Bethesda obviously trying to improve it with the books it begs the question: how important is the games main story/quest to you in the first place? Do you even care if there is one?

Personally, I think the Daggerfall one is the only replayable one. I've beaten the Morrowind one three times, however, mostly to get the stuff, like the travel-stained pants.

I think a main story makes the world seem more alive because it drives the political situation forward. But, I'm not sure if the PC necessarily needs to be a major part of it every playthrough.

In the past, I've suggested just letting events unfold over time, independant of the PC's actions. Maybe the seige happens when you're in the city and you end up helping the town guard. Maybe you're a fighter's guild member and have been hired to help take the city. Maybe you're a thieves guild member and have been sent to steal a valuable jewel from the palace amidst the commotion. Maybe you're a member of the temple and you go to the city to help civilians evacuate. Maybe you come out of a dungeon one day and only hear news that the city was captured.

I think they can sacrifice some length of the main quest if they appropriately allow multiple ways of going through the main quest. We all remember a quest or two in Morrowind where you could have one playthrough on one side of a battle, then play the other side next time, like the Oridniran siege. This allows them to reuse several key points, and have different outcomes.

They also need to say in the games that several things are happening simultaneously, but you can't see them while you're directly busy with something else. In Oblivion, you're the only damn one leaving Cloud Ruler to get items, they have to start writing these main quests more as a team effort. You're really going to beg some dark elf nobles in Morrowind to let you go up the mountain by yourself and kill their greatest enemy? You're really going to waltz into Sancre Tor by yourself in Oblivion? There has to be someone else doing something for the cause. Anything.

Without the main quest, where would one figure out where to start? "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step," but if you don't have the main quest, that first step takes a long time to find.

In Daggerfall you started with a shipwreck, and they didn't contact you to start the main quest till a month later in game time.

Daggerfall started with the emperor assigning you to a specific mission, actually.

Then, came the shipwreck.

To me, the main story is not the most important part of any Elder Scrolls game. I mean, I've completed the main storylines of both Morrowind and Oblivion at least once, but I've also created many characters who never spoke to Caius or Jauffre, or who did do the first quest in the main quest but quit at some point during the proccess. The main story, in an Elder Scrolls game, is just one part that comes together to form a greater whole. For one thing, the main quest serves as a central questline tying the whole thing together, without it, the whole game would feel like a series of disjounted storylines which might as well exist independantly for all the connections they have. Of course, this doesn't always mean I want to do the main quest with every character, but I want to know it's there or the whole thing feels pointless. Moreover, the main quest is usually where the events that have the greatest impact on Tamriel's history happen, in Daggerfall, the main quest had you deciding how to handle the Numidium and who you should give it to, in Morrowind, the main quest had you killing Dagoth Ur, destroying the source of his powers and the Tribunal's, and becoming the Nerevarine. In Oblivion, you stopped the Oblivion Crisis at the cost of Martin's sacrifice. It could be argued that these were pretty major, world changing events. They're the things that really make a difference in the long run. I mean, sure, the Theives Guild quests would effect Thieves Guild members in the game, but it's not really going to change the ongoing history of the setting. And honestly, having all the important events take place off-screen would not be a good design choice. I mean, granted, things that are part of the backstory, of course, are shown in dialog and books, but that's because they're the backstory, but when the player doesn't have any chance to be involved in the actual main story, then you have a problem.



You mean things like the Great Houses actually sending help for you when you attack Red Mountain? I'd say that would only be a good idea if they improved how the AI handles companions and large groups of people fighting at once. I mean, in Oblivion, we already had problems with that whn a few guards were fighting during the attack on Bruma if you had sought help from the other cities, imagine what it would be like if it was a larger group?

Still, when you said several things are happening simultaneously, what I actually thought of is that, if for the main quest, two or more tasks that need to be completed come up at the same time. For an example, let's say that we need someone to retrieve two separate artifacts. Whereas in Morrowind and Oblivion, the game would probably have forced you to retrieve both, the game could instead have the player choose which one to search for, and then have some other character be sent to retrieve the one the player chose not to look for. This way, the game could acknowledge that you're not the only one actually doing things, it would also add a bit of replay value to the main quest without the need to worry about how to reconcile conflicting outcomes as the same situation could lead to two different quests depending on which option you choose.



And I'm pretty sure I recall having wandered for quite some time in Daggerfall at the start before I find something worth doing.

I didn't mean it should turn into a team thing like the weird assault at the end of Knights of the Nine, I was listing the things above that should sound like silly quests. Red mountain for example: He's got an army, you're one guy. They should have sent dark elves from each of the powers you wrangle to assault Red Mountain all at once after you ask Vivec to drop the ghostgate. Then you have several diversions, letting you get past the army to fight Dagoth Ur and his bodyguards. The game world should be large enough that you won't be able to see the other factions attacking, but since you coordinated the effort and you see the effects of it later, you know it's supposed to be going on.

When it comes to fetch quests, I definitely mean that several tasks should be completed at once. They can even bump you a little if someone gets their ass kicked and you need to help them with theirs. Surely they can have the other guys doing something while you're doing a quest. Even if they're just training the peasants to fight.

The main quests were the least interesting aspects of Morrowind and Oblivion for me. I did both main quests once when the games were first released. Once was enough.

Voted: It's nice to have one.

But I'm currently hugely enjoying "Mounts & Blades" which has none at all.

Yup. The game would be still cool if it didn't have a main storyline, like in M&B.

But it's a TES game. And the main storyline is an important part of an TES game. That's why I voted "A lot!".

its nice to have one because frankly I don't like a quest to be "forced" on me, I liked the uncertainty we had in Morrowind then we chose if we want to get involved in the "main quest"

to be honest I would prefer multiple quest lines instead of a single unchanging one, it gives replay value and I'm sick and tired of saving the world. I found the side quests ro be very entertaining and I would love to see more complex side quests this time around and maybe side quests that affect each other or affect the main quests.

To be fair, I don't think the Dunmer Houses were interested in attacking Red Mountain at the moment. I think they were content to send your character to his/her death.

Becoming the war leader of every group on the island was 75% of the main quest, then none of them did anything for you. That pissed me off.

You didn't become war leader... you became hortator, which is, at the time, an antiquated, meaningless title (it may have meant war leader at some point in the past, but it means nothing now). The Hlaalu give you the title in exchange for money, the Redoran give you the title in exchange for favors, and the Telvanni couldn't care less except for the one traditionalist, who you kill.

All in all, none of them care about the title "hortator" and they're just taking advantage of the fact that you think it means something. They might as well milk you for all you're worth.

The only two characters who actually expect you to go into red mountain are Azura and Vivec. The emperor wants to make you into an imperialized nerevarine for diplomatic purposes, Nibani Maesa names you Nerevarine because of her friendship with the Blades, the other ashlanders name you Nerevarine because of the specific things you do to help their tribe's situation, the houses name you Hortator in exchange for favors because the title means nothing to them to begin with, and the temple would love to see you wander into Red Mountain and die alone because that's more proof against the Nerevarine prophecy.

Also, no faction at the moment has the manpower to assault red mountain, which is actually the same reason Lady Brisienna tells you you have to go after the totem alone in Daggerfall.

Yes, it would have been cool if the story ended with a full-on assault of Red Mountain. However, I really don't see any gaping plot-holes.

Pretty much. Damn, Morrowind had a piss poor main quest.

I really liked it. This is how politics work, man. Everyone cares about themself.

And a lot of times, a big change will be a fluke, sparked by someone's lust for money.

I personally think it would have been less interesting if all the different factions were united in their hatred of Dagoth Ur and all banded together to stop him. Vvardenfell is in the middle of civil war and Dagoth Ur is just a single player. His enemy is the Temple, not the Houses. And the truth is that the temple is way more interested in stopping the dissidents than Dagoth Ur.

He's really only lowering the quality of life for the poor people of the island and so the government is doing nothing really about it. Then, you come along with your prophetic dreams and magic artifacts and mess up everything because no one is paying any attention to you.

And you're not the hero because it is your actions that eventually cause the destruction of Vvardenfell.

That's another thing to consider. No one understands the heart or the ramifications of destroying it. Last time an army assaulted Red Mountain, the whole northern half of Morrowind exploded and a whole culture went extinct. It's a volatile subject and it's probably better to send in a lone agent than an army... if anyone even cared to begin with.

You can compare the situation to the modern Near-East, even. There's a crazy man hiding in the mountains of Pakistan right now, plotting the downfall of the western world. Every now and then, his minions emerge and blow something up, but none of the governments are doing much to go after him because they're all too busy fighting each other. Then you have that crazy ex-commando on TV claiming that he's going to sneak in the mountains by himself and capture bin Laden himself. But absolutely no one is offering to help him or stop him.

As a background for some of that, maybe. As a main quest, it's terrible. 75% of the main quest is filler.

The most tame civil war ever, and the temple has the god kings of the elflords. I don't see how doing nothing is more interesting than doing anything. There's no civil war, it's the status quo of the island to take jabs at each other.

True, because nobody cares enough about the dark elves enough to save them. Especially not

Which would have been destroyed in every scenario. Once the zord is turned on, Vivec loses power and the ministry falls.

Because it's less likely to explode if one guy attacks it with a hammer?

Most of the main plot is simply reading about the past history of Morrowind, yes. But I like that and the same exact thing can be said for the main plot of Daggerfall.

most of the main quest is the history of tiber septim and the war of betony and woodborne's betrayal, all of which happen before you even get there. Then you're just the idiot who wanders into Aetherius, alone, to retrieve the most important artifact, ever.

Yeah the civil war should have been way more intense but it still doesn't change the fact that no one really has a reason to care about Dagoth Ur.

didn't realize that, but are you sure than many people really even have the faintest idea of what Dagoth Ur's ultimate plans are?


That's a good point. I don't see why Vivec makes it so easy for you to retrieve these artifacts and carry them right into the lair of his enemy. Unless he understands that Azura will be protecting you.

I'm pretty sure, however, that most everyone else expects you to die way before you make it even near the heart.

It is pretty important, but not of utmost importance.

My brother can only write settings.

All these deconstruction fantasy settings are magnificent, but he never has a half-decent tale to tell in them. You need both setting and an immediate driving plot. Both are of mind-bendingly gargantuan and equal importance.

To add, I don't want the feeling that I being forced to do the MQ, unless I want to. MW, during the time you directly work with the blades, is all about getting the bolder rolling and trying to get the feeling of what the hell you are doing. Once you're done and the bolder is starting to roll, then things seem important to keep your mind on the task at hand.

man i miss morrowind's realism and politics

and in the end of the main quest all you do is take away the gift of Godhood from the people, I wished I could help dagoth...

I like the main quests, think they should be very important for the setting.

However, I don't think they should be forced. For example, as I type, my Dark Elf archer is talking to Jauffre and what does he say? "Take your time?" No. He says "omg find Martin noowwww!!111oneoneshifteleven!!!"

The main quest in Oblivion pretty much forces you to rush like mad to end the Oblivion Crisis. I didn't like this one bit, so that's why I purposfully ignore the old Breton/Nord.

There's also no cross-roads, to lead the plots of KotN and Oblivion together. Future expansions to a main quest must integrate.