My question to you is What would have happened if the Vault Dweller died before he could destroy the Master?

Post what you think would have happened.

Undoubtely the Master would have continued his expansion. Vault 13 would have probably been found eventually, and its inhabitants dipped. At some point then, the Children of the Cathedral would have thrown off their clever ruse and the Master would have unveiled his Mutant army. Since there is really no faction that could have opposed such a force, settlement after settlement in the region would have fell to his forces, and its citizens would have been dipped.

This begs the question then, what would have happened when the Master came up against the Enclave? HA! The Enclave would then be the "good guys" wouldn't they? (I'm guessing the Master and his army would have been exposed to the Curling-13 virus, since more than likely, the Chosen One wouldn't have come into being if Arroyo was never founded).

So thus: Master victory in Fallout 1=Enclave victory in Fallout 2.

The Enclave were in hiding during the Masters time I believe, they didn't set up an outpost at Navvaro until thirty or so years later.

I'm not sure if the Curling virus would have affected the super mutants. They were, after all, immune to pretty much everything but bullets and sharp sticks.


After dipping the vault dwellers of 13, he would have stopped forcefully dipping people, I think.

You're assuming that the Enclave would have actually been able to obtain a sample of the original virus from Mariposa. I think the Enclave would have gone to war with the Unity, no doubt about that, but it's debatable as to whether or not they would have won even with Advanced Power Armor and big energy weapons. Maybe if they sided with the only other real opposition the Unity would have had, the Brotherhood of Steel, but even then the Unity would more than likely outnumber them.



The Curling virus killed humanoid life forms indiscriminately.

Yeah, the Unity at it's peak would have kicked Enclave's ass big time. The second generation mutants could force them out of Mariposa, imagine what the Master's army could have done. They even had a nuke, which they were going to use to wipe out the Brotherhood.

True I hadn't thought about how they would obtain the FEV-sample, but assuming they did its almost undeniable they would win.

If they didn't though then I agree that it would be a tough fight but I still think the Enclave would come out on top. For one, the Master and his army have no way to stike at the Enclave HQ, the Oil Rig (I'm disregarding the possiblity that a bunch of mutants could hop on the tanker and attack the Rig). The Master also has no way to counter the vertibird threat (which gives the Enclave a significant edge in any fight and allows for quick transport of troops and supplies).



The Enclave have always been outnumbered, they don't rely on numbers to defeat an enemy (but at the same time they don't just rely on shiny power armor and energy weapons like the Brotherhood does).



Why would he have though? More humans means more opposition to his army. Not only that but he would need to replace any fallen mutants that would have been lost in the fighting (and in the eventual fight with the Enclave).




Right but what I'm saying is what would have happened come the time of Fallout 2?



To be fair though the second generation mutants caught the Enclave guards by surprise, and in any case the Enclave was able to pull out of the base with most of their men intact (and besides that Frank Horrigan was created out of that debacle).

I was also a bit skeptical has to how exactly the mutants planned to deploy that nuke against the brotherhood.

The Enclave would most likely withdraw to their Oil Rig, I cannot think of anyway the Mutants could come there to attack, if they found a way they would destroy the Enclave. (If the Master's plan continues as planned.)

i dunno, maybe he was deep down a nice guy.

We also needed a large supply chain from Vault City and ending in Reno to get the chemicals for the virus and the vaccine so the Project wouldn't have been possible.

Take a look at that quote again.



All that resist: My guess is that most people would have resisted being dipped or being under unity control.

All those that are required for the Unity as well: Kinda vague don't ya think? How many peope did the Master believe was "required" for the Unity? A hundred from each town? A thousand? All of em'? Once he would have begun to take losses, won't new troops be "required"?

But none shall breed: Again, resistance would have followed which=dipping



Still though, even without the virus, I'd still place my money on an Enclave victory anyday.

Yeah to be honest the Enclave could probably survive on the Rig until the damn thing collapsed, there society is ruthlessly controlled and as frozen as the culture that come before it; they would probably think of something though (whether it would suceed or not is, of course, a different subject), it was, after-all, the rauaging remains of the Unity which the Enclave saw in the '70s which was another "Pro" for the genocide plan.

Not only that but eventually they Enclave could win through attrition. As we all know the Master was wrong in assuming mutants could reproduce. All the Enclave has to do is keep the Oil Rig secure and it has a homebase where its people can procreate and continue to produce soldiers. Then they could simply make quick hit and run attacks on strategic Unity strongholds and try to kill as many as they can before hopping on a vertibird back to the Oil Rig.

Assuming they had the time, it took the Enclave Chemical Corps several decades to produce the Curling virus.



The Unity had rocket launchers, so they could stand a chance against vertibirds. The Oil Rig on the other hand would be a tough nut for them to crack due to its automated defenses that fire upon any ship that isn't fitted with a Poseidon Energy IFF. However unless the Enclave managed to get a sample of FEV, which would be extremely unlikely, the Unity would have the advantage of time and resources.



What could they have done? They wouldn't have had the option of subtlety that they had in the canon timeline due to the Unity's rapid expansion.

I'm not sure the rocket launchers would have been all that much of a help. They're not heat-seeking or anything like that so its pretty much just point and shoot. If a vertibird is stationary? Sure, even then though the verti's armor might protect it. Moving or flying through the air? That'd be nearly impossible, which means that the Enclave still has the ability to carpet bomb and launch airstrikes.



I was just pointing out that the Enclave have never been relient on numbers, and have found clever ways to scoot around that supposed "weakness".

Perhaps they would have come up with something besides the Curling virus? A weapon that is more conventional for instance? rusina pointed out that the Unity has a nuke. Well the Enclave probably has the capacity to manufacture their own nukes.

Not only that but the Unity appears to lack any ability to develop their own technology, the Enclave would have continued to progress with weapon development while the unity stayed stagnant. It would have been a arms race with only one side doing the racing.

*Raspy Voice On*

With the fall of the vault dweller, there is noone to stop the rise of the mutant force. The Brotherhood, paralysed by indecision, is eventually besieged by the Mutant horde. Unable to leave their shelter without facing a rain of bullets, plasma and rockets eventually die of starvation.

The towns of Adytum, Hub, Junktown, Shady Sands, Redding, Reno, Modoc, Klamath and Den all fall to the mutant horde. The Ghost farm, able to greater trade on superstition with the lower inteligence of the Supermutants survives. The residents of vault city retreat into their vault for the meantime. With the followers of the apocalypse exterminated, and no new rome in the region, Caesar is never born.

As the Enclave become active in the californian region, it comes with a panic. The mutant horde is well armed, well equipped, and great in number - the plan has an air of drastic to it. Although Curling develops a theoretical version of the Forced Evolution Virus that could cleanse the wasteland, with no immediate access to the virus getting a sample becomes a priority. A full frontal assult on Mariposa is considered, but rejected for being too risky. The Enclave, in its desperation resorts to the tools that brought the world to its knees last time (Either using BOMB-001 from VB, another stockpile or building their own). Although Mariposa is not on the target list, the other super-mutant strongholds are. The greatly reduced mutant force, surprised from the attack from an enemy they had not yet seen is no longer able to offer the same resistance. Mariposa falls, Curling finishes his FEV work, and it is released into the atmosphere. Other than those who remain, or have rentered the vaults, the human, supermutant and ghoul population of the continential USA has been exterminated.

The calculator, detecting that the surface is okay begins its reconstruction of the old world. Using long dormant control subroutines, the Enclave takes control of its forces, and uses its resources to rebuild its version of America.

James still enteres vault 101 to protect his child. With no brotherhood to assist in Project Purity or to mitigate the mutant threat, his work is not developed enough to receive that flash of inspiration to seek a GECK. Although the memory of his abandonded work still pains him, and he continues secret research into water purification, James remains in the vault watching his child and Amata grow into advlthood, and they lived happily ever after, until the Enclave came.

Seeking a place for rest and relaxation, an encalve scouting party eventually reaches Las Vegas. Surprised to see a securitron army rebuilding the city, they eventually make contact with one of old America's favourite sons. Although there is some disquiet on his eligibility to claim humanity initially, these are mostly overcome and he eventually rises to become President of the newly reconstituted United states. With his economic and political resources, not to mention his intelligence, he rules the United States like noone before him, with Centuries being the potential length of his political rule.

Eventually the United States restablishes contact with the decendants of other nations, and well, as they say... War. War never changes.

House as leader of the Enclave?



sweet.......

Why not? He's a red blooded American and could surely see the opportunity it presents - more resources to control to meet his objectives, whatever they are this week.

I uh... okay.

No no you misunderstood me.

When I said "sweet" I meant...best....idea...ever.... :celebration:

I see a fan fiction or RP coming.

I demand one.

Maybe I should get around to learning the GECK. Make a mini game about a vault opening and meeting the Enclave with that as a prestory....

No, I understood you... I didn't mean what I said like that...

Just kinda seemed like what House does.... He finds lemons and makes Lemon Meringue Pie, and Lemonade, and sells it to you at a reasonable price.

Got ya. So I misunderstood something that I thought you misinterpreted. Which led to a miscommunication...ughh my head hurts :bonk:



Indeed. "Well I was going to just take over New Vegas....ehh what the heck, I'll run for President"

It'd be awesome to see the securitrons incorporated into the Enclave armed forces.