Too many people play wow or something else that is all about power-grinding to the most powerful point and try to compare this game to it. I laugh at those threads, because they basically exploit the game as much as possible to get the max skills for smithing and enchanting and then complain that they can 1 shot stuff when they, technically, should have not been at that point for many, many levels. It's not their fault though, either. They're stuck with this mentality that that's how you enjoy a game, when it certainly isn't. I pity them, actually.

When I play, I don't play to be "the best character possible as soon as possible", and I always tend to make choices that make me weaker overall in the game. Like in my Nord warrior game I'm playing - I refuse to wear anything better than basic steel, and mostly because I like the way that armor looks on me compared to the others. I may wear ebony or deadric when I get it (I haven't seen what they look like yet), but it really depends on what it looks like on me and whether or not I'm satisfied with that look. I did this in New Vegas, too. I wore some modded armor that I downloaded that was not that good at all when compared to just leather armor. I enjoyed the game more because I thought I looked cool and it always made the game more difficult because it was easy for me to get killed.

Anyway, I feel that's how everyone should play this game - make conscious sacrifices for the enjoyment of the game for the sake of filling the role of the type of character you want. I just want to look and be like any other person in the game - just a regular shmoe - that happens to have this unique ability with shouts. I rarely see any main character wearing something that looks out of this world like deadric or dragon armor, but then again I'm not that high level yet (highest is 29, but I started a new character). You're really missing the point of the TES series if you're trying your damndest to rock out with the best gear as early as possible.

I will, however, admit that there does seem to be some discrepancies. Rarely is a game right from the get-go. There will undoubtedly be patches by Bethesda, and eventually mods that increase the enjoyment you get out of the game.

What would you rather use as magical Offense? Restoration?

Try comparing destruction's functionality to two-handed weapon functionality, and your argument would be stronger still fall apart because two-handed weapons can be used to handle entire encounters on its own in reasonable time without serious risk, while Destruction cannot.

Ack! I'm falling into an argument fallacy!

Anyway, the problem with Destruction isn't "It does less than melee weapons!" The problem is "I can't win battles with it with less effort than killing everything with an Iron Sword while naked instead."

The problem is that as you level up with Destruction, you become weaker compared to the world around you. As you level up in other skills, you become stronger. It's not that as you level up Destruction you become not-quite-as-much-stronger-than-the-world-around-you-than-you-would-have-been-with-melee-weapons.

It does to them, case closed. An appropriate level of challenge isn't an unreasonable desire, nor is wanting skills to be relatively competitive with eachother.
Not everyone can still enjoy their character when self-imposing restrictions on themselves, and not everyone can just ignore the fact that certain skills are vastly superior to others.

Character builds and power-gaming strategies matter especially in this game because of the scaling enemies as well. If you don't build a character well, you'll have a much harder time because progressing in terms of levels is not actual progress when comes to power in combat and can even be a sort of regression. You're hurting yourself when you level your pickpocket skill and you're wasting any perks you put in it's tree.

Some like to have balance even if it isn't an MMO.
As long as there's benefits and weaknesses to each type of build then I'm happy.
Means I'll be superior in one aspect but inferior in another in comparison to my other character.
But when the balance is [censored] to Midg?rd for all characters then it's a concern.

i wish there were Master and expert level versions of the earlier spells like Flames and Lightning bolt.

As do we all

agreed.

Well ultimately in a single player game, balance is indeed not as important as in multiplayer.

Some complaints are pretty much contradictory, too.

BUT, it seems that at least pure mages are growing comparatively weak at high levels, as they miss the possibilities to increase damage that are available to fighter types. Ultimately this does directly affect the "playability" of this class (at high levels). So I would call that an balance issue that matters even in single player.

Well if the game is just too easy that is another matter. You can pin alot on Bethesda for making a ridiculous smithing system where you make the best gear in the game, rather than being forced to actually find it. Yet another stupid design decision in my opinion.

I like smithing and think it should give some bonus to make it worth taking for those who want it, but currently its too easy to level / too easy to get the best materials and too exploitable. Can be walking around in full dragonbone or scale at level 10, which is IMO an issue. Part of this is due to dragons being a joke at early levels. I think you should get significantly less experience for making smaller/weaker things, but more for larger/stronger. Currently you can level it easier just with base materials than you can with any of the things you perk into. You should have to find some sort of schematics before suddenly knowing how to craft things like Daedric armor which seems a little advanced to learn from crafting iron daggers too.
And then there's the skill boost effects need to be removed at least for crafting skills. It's just broken.
And it would be nice to have NPC smiths and enchanters, who wouldn't make better gear than a PC(maybe they only craft gear but don't improve it, and it's expensive) but at least give non-smiths/enchanters something to do with their dragon materials and soul gems.

To get the tank that can take just about anything you need to use blacksmithing,blocking,heavy armor,one handed weapons,enchanting,alchemy, and archery wouldn't hurt if you wan't a distance weapon. Seems to me that is a lot of skills and points, plus grind time to get the things to make those work. That points to not just a fighter class but to a MULTI-class player. And lets face it, in this type of game you must be a multi to survive without death around every turn.

ITT: People who think balance doesn't matter in a single player game.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

From what I've read a possible solution could be to add some high damage/high mana spells at high level and possibly add some enchants that improve damage output (for one element per enchant). that should improve the efectiveness of destruction without pumping it too high or letting wide open loopholes. Or at least not worse than the aclhemy/enchant/crafting combo of insane gear.production.

I have to agree. To a certain extent, I've always thought people how complain about balance issues for a single player role playing game are completely missing the point. Yes, in Morrowind some strategies were more viable than others and it was very easy to power level and break the game if you knew what to do. But it's not like that gave you an unfair advantage over other players, because there are no other players! What does it matter if something is "op" as long as all strategies are basically playable. It's about your own personal roleplaying experience.

Playing different characters can be different even if they are both equally strong ... balance is not in the way of game having different builds. Don't really get what OPs argument is.

They would have to remove or at least cap enchant stacking. -100% mana cost on destruction spells ... I hope it's not working as intended.

Of everything broken, surely we can fix this with a simple mod. Add the same spells again but with (appropriately) more damage, BOOM. Mod in items that give +%damage to destruction... if possibruh.

It's pretty hilarious how common this idea is, that it's okay for casters take 2 hours to kill normal monsters while melee can 2-shot everything because it's single player.


And severely nerf the amount of +% damage melee gets. Enchantment should probably get a huge hit for them.

Gabe from the Fallout forums had a quote in his signature about RPG games.


"Action gamers is why we can't have cool stuff in RPG's. Your getting your Action all over my Game."

Balance is for strategy games, accessability and story is RPG.

Weak destro magic is the cool stuff ?

I really don't understand people. Almost all of the people who say that magic is fun to play with use conjuration, the one offensive school of magic that centers on bringing creatures to your side that scale with your level. The rest of the people say to use a melee skill as backup, which brings into question why you went with magic at all. Yes I know you could blast until the enemies are close to soften them up and then slash, but some people expect the destruction skill to be more than light supplemental damage.

This isn't a matter of balance and MMO WoW mentality. This is a matter of expectations and fun. Past TeS games have lead us to believe that destruction magic could be our primary source of damage, and if there were still resistance lowering spells (not poisons), or enchantments for magic damage, it could be. I understand that "mages" should be getting a different experience, but it shouldn't have to be an experience which involves Everquest Wizard style snaring and kiting in order to succeed at the end.

The primary thing that I'm hearing from people is that they want what THEY do to be fun and potentially exploitable, and magic users can go screw themselves. That isn't a positive or healthy mentality. The people who want magic aren't saying "waaah, sword is too strong." They're saying, "booo, destruction is too weak." There is a difference, one that people really need to learn.

Edited for clarity: I don't want destruction to be a one skill killing machine. I don't mind needing enchantments or alchemy to get that extra edge. I'd just like to, without it, be able to ride on the perks just like a marksman or one-handed or two-handed user can.

Destruction is broken, the rest of the game doesnt have to be equal but at least fair and balanced. Destruction doesnt scale and basically you get weaker as the game goes on thats a BAD imbalance that ruins a class.
Destruction should but doesn'r scale like all other abilities, thus is broken and ruins a class whose main damage skill is destruction... Sorcerers or mages that focus on doing damage have been around since the fantasy genre has been around... They should and are very viable in every other game./.

I encourage you to read my signature OP. Multiple times.

Wait for it....

WhhhhhhOOOOOOOOSSSSSSHHHHH!

It doesnt even have to do with balance, destruction magic is literally broken right now.