Help me figure something out here: in the book (haven't read it yet, they don't have it at the local library), the Ministry of Truth (Lie Rock, I think Hellmouth said that the name get's changed in the book) crashes into the city of Vivec and sets off Red Mountain, essentially decimating Vvardenfell.

Now I haven't been to Vivec in a couple years, but I do not remember the Ministry of Truth being that big. Half the size of the temple canton, maybe a little bigger. And even if it were twice that size, it wouldn't pick up enough velocity by the time it hit the temple to be earth-shattering (Nirn-shattering?). It was what, 200 feet up, max? The temple would be hurting for sure, but I don't see half a province being destroyed.

Are there factors here of which I'm not aware?

The Ministry of Truth wasn't really slowed down. It was frozen in time, so when it finally fell, it was still at the same speed at which it was originally headed toward Vivec.

The theory is that if you believe Vivicky (aka liar elfboy) it was stopped in time and space, so it would have the same velocity as before if it was released, causing elf problems. If he liked the elves, he might have moved it or something, as obviously anyone could move it since they tunneled it out to make a cheap jail inside. Basically if anyone cared about the dark elves, they would have solved the problem with one of the simple solutions:

Open an Oblivion gate below to send it to Dagon.
Have guar drag it away to somewhere else.
Mine all of it away till there are just small pieces here and there.
Get a mage to teleport it to Thras.
Get a mage to croquet push it away.
Hire a different god to save the dark elves.
Cover it with flubber, so it would bounce.
Pour feather potions on it until it is weightless, then use it like a beach ball for awhile till you're bored.
Cast "fortify city" on Vivec city.
Convince anyone else that Vvardenfell is worth saving, then they can come up with ideas.

Ugh, The Ministry of Truth has also been under the name of Lie Rock since Morrowind. Never said such things. Plus, it's the Ministry of Truth in the book.

But as others have stated already, it was just frozen in time and space, not suddenly stopped and just kept there. Once people pretty much stopped believing in V-man (if his word is to be taken as truth) the enchantment around it would fade and it would crash as if V-man never stopped it in the first place.

Any who, the dunmer should have moved it to Summerset Ilse as a "gift" to the altmer.

I'd do it. I like delivering gifts.

Has anyone here ever stopped a moon hurdling towards a planet by freezing time and space around it?

You say that it was simple for vivec to move it, as if it follows the laws of physics. It's not that simple. Magic isn't simple. While, perhaps, Vivec could have moved it, there is no definate answer to whether he could or not. Only Vivec knew. I mean, it was Sheogorath's fault it had been launched. Who is to say he wasn't putting aside power to make it hit Vivec, just as Vivec was trying to stop it? All the Guars in the world couldn't move it if so.

I'm simply saying, you shouldn't have a definative answer. If it's still in place because of Sheogorath, I blame Almalexia and Sotha Sil. They could have easily helped Vivec to overpower Sheogorath, in thier prime.


Also, to the OP:

The MoT only destroyed Vivec, initially, I believe, and perhaps part of the mainland/Ebonheart. The reason half the province was destroyed, as it was, was because the MoT triggered Red Mountain to erupt, which caused a lot of destruction. (The water between Vvardenfell and the mainland was nowhere near enough to cool down the Lava at a considerable rate - a lot of the mainland was destroyed too. There were also poisonous gases)

Who is to say the rock wasn't really made of cheese and should have melted on reentry if Sheogorath hadn't protected it? No one. But we should stay reasonable in our assumptions. It's a bit mind-boggling that you quote the laws of physics. That's not what's at issue at all. What's at issue is what are likely conclusions. If there are any laws at issue, it is the laws of logic. Of course you can now say that magic isn't necessarily logical. But you know what that means? It means it's nothing but a pitiful excuse for abysmal storytelling because one couldn't come up with a better reason. "Hey, it's magic, so there! Don't bother me with wanting to be able to actually follow the story..."

As for Sheogorath putting aside power to make it hit Vivec, I have some problems seeing him doing so after "Shivering Isles". The old Sheogorath isn't Sheogorath anymore, and the new one isn't the one behind the launch of the Rock, so why should he bother? Even IF he inherits some of Sheogorath's power at some point somehow, it would be hilariously "sheogorathy" for the new Sheogorath to get back at the old one for manipulating him by thwarting some of his actions.

One thing that should be mentioned is that in order to be in orbit, objects must be moving very, very fast. All Sheogorath had to do was to get the moon going in the direction of Vivec City.

Here's the thing though, all that was just said doesn't matter. Lie Rock fell, nuked Vivec into a smoldering crater, most of Morrowind has been hit hard with ash and tsunamis, the sea surrounding Vvardenfell is still boiling decades after Lie Rock fell, and It is canontonical that this hit years after OB. And the book is canon and its events.

Sorry for putting words in your mouth. I don't remember that being in Morrowind, but I suppose that's what happens when you haven't played in years (even though it is the most memorable game OF ALL TIME). Where is that, in-game?

in-book, http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-thirty-six-lessons-vivec-sermon-thirty-three

Oh, there has been much worse story-telling, trust me. Anyway, my point is you can't come up with ome sort of definitive answer to Vivec's moralities based on something you don't understand properly.


By then Vivec had been taken by daedra, and the MoT was held up by the whatsitcalled seen in Infernal City. But then, it's not exactly easy for a standard mortal to freeze something in time and space, and move it somewhere else.

Speaking of which, if the MoT is frozen in time and space, even Vivec wouldn't be able to move it, I'd think. He had stopped it from hitting Vivec by freezing it. This would stop ANY movement from happening, at all. Be it stopping it falling, or moving it elsewhere.

And I think that the fact that they hollowed it out was in fact, breaking existing lore. It shouldn't have been able to happen, but meh.

(by the way, I'm not arguing Vivec's morality, I'm neutral on the matter)

actually, it could mean that those stones they hollowed out of the MoT still retain their initial velocity, so if those stones were moved to other places in MW.... :whistling:

"Abysmal storytelling" seems to be the go-to excuse for "I don't like that Morrowind was destroyed." Guess what? Its been planed since before TES3:Morrowind was released. We had hints in the 36 Lessons and later in the Loveletter that this thing was going to fall. We may not like that Morrowind is forever changed, but that doesn't make it bad storytelling or that it was done randomly and without purpose. I, for one, prefer progress over a stagnant world.

I agree.

Well said.

Either way, the big rock was going terminal velocity, and even in the novel Sul said it started at exactly the speed it had been "as though it had never been stopped." Not to mention, if every other fragment of it suddenly moved as well when the bigger rock started, it makes even more sense that the volcano would go boom.

As for why it stopped, I hope we are never given a full explanation. To some, it will always be "the people stopped loving Vivec." To others, it'll be "Vivec left/was destroyed and his enchantment faded." The fact of the matter is, Vvardenfell is a shattered pile of ash, the An-Xileel Empire composes Black Marsh and Morrowind, and the Dunmer culture must either adapt (underground, it does according to the loveletter) or perish.

It's not like Vvardenfell was a nice place either. You just lose some crotchety elves and wasteland.

Speaking of which, Vivec should have let the thing fall to kill Dagoth Ur.

Neither does the fact that we had hints in the 36 Lessons make anything good storytelling. Nor does it make accusing others of preferring a stagnant world anything more than a pitiful excuse of an argument. I suggest you come up with a bit more than putting arguments into peoples words that aren't there. Seeing things isn't very convincing. There's a huge difference between disliking the way this event was described, including the consequences, and disliking that "Morrowind is forever changed".

I'd have to strongly disagree.

Irmo: I am just wholly frustrated with that line of thinking since I hear it far too often. While it may not be true for you, it is surely true for others.

Now, all I want to know is how the fall of the Ministry is "abysmal storytelling." Its neither cliché nor is it random, in fact, it affirms much of what we have known and expected and plays well alongside the overarching storyline of the games.

Except that given established maps and a major eruption, Black Marsh should just as much be a shattered pile of ash, and the Argonians their hands full surviving in an ex-swamp filled up in large parts with ash and brimstone and the rest suffering from drastically changed climate. But thankfully, we can simply wave our hands and say "Hey, what do you want, it's magic!" and establish that the oh so major eruption was magically stopped wherever the author didn't want it to go.

Thanks, but if an author wants me to switch off my brain, I expect that he works for it instead of taking it for granted.

Cf my other post above. The entirety of the circumstances, from time, mode and effects have been chosen quite arbitrarily so that the author gets away with his story. It smells of fan fiction of the worst kind left and right. "Hey, my protagonist knows ABC and he has witnessed DEF and he can do GHI and thus survives even JKL because the MNO only went to PQR". It's not enough that the rock falls, no, it has to trigger an eruption as well, an eruption that is totally cataclysmic, but only in an extremely limited area so that the Argonians can invade instead of being the second-hardest hit. There's contrived coincidences at every corner. And woe be to him who asks too many questions... If the answer to a lot of questions is "Hey, it's magic/divine action, how do you know you can use logic here?", chances are someone didn't make much of an effort to write down a story.

You seem to be doing a fine job of it without an author's help specifically to [censored] about said author.

It wasn't the meteor, the eruption, or the invasion that did in Morrowind. It was the combination of the three doing what no one of them could do. The meteor impact caused tremors that set off the volcano, which caused a lot of damage to Vvardenfell, not necessarily Morrowind as a whole. However when they were distracted and weakened from having multiple major holy sites (including their equivalent of Jerusalem, basically) annihilated, not to mention the beating they took in the Oblivion Crisis, the Argonians, having been united, simply finished the job.

It's fine if you don't like the book. But don't pretend it was a mound of jibberish that didn't even try to make sense.

I think the Nords would have more of a problem than the argonians... Skyrim is closer to Vvardenfell than the Black Marsh is. Not that I'm sure the destruction even reached that far...

And you don't even notice that you proved my point...