You mean the Vertibirds? The BoS has probably captured facilities that can. They had enough time. And have you ever shot on a car? I wonder what's in these things.

But how can the M run diesel engines 24h? The lack of crude oil was one of the reasons why the great war started.

Point of order. The minutemen have the Sight on their side. Their General (the player) has a damn psychic on speed dial. That sort of intell gathering can't be counted lightly. It means patrols are sent out "to get ambushed" with the right sort of fire power to knock out what they are warned about. It means settlements have time to evacuate and leave behind traps, or wreck anything the BoS may need.

Another thing that is getting overlooked is terrain familiarity. Also called the home field advantage. These farmers have been hunting, fishing, and surviving in the commonwealth area for generations. They know the land and how to work with it instead of against it. This has turned the tide of wars. Without local guides invading forces are SOL.

I think she'd probably die from drug overdose if they tried to use her to fight a war. The homefield advantage would be a big help though. I still don't think they'd even need it to fight the BoS. The Minutemen's new leadership is getting them whipped into fighting shape while the BoS is tossing endless resources into suicide missions.... it's only a matter of time before the BoS withers and dies without a war even being fought.

I'm sad for the loss fo the BoS, but it has been profitable! I've taken to rushing the vertibird crash sites now to search for the dead knight. The dead knight is loaded with T-60 pieces. I'm using those to fit together an array of power armors for my Minutemen, repainted in Atom Cats style. Too bad I can't collect vertibird parts and build my own... although I'm not sure I'd want to fly around in one of those deathtraps.

And then what? what does people eat when they destroy their crops? And where could they go? Crops can't be harvest every 24h that is solely for game play reasons.

The Bos has probably found an old map or charted the terrain with their Vertibirds.

This is kind of a bad example, you realize, as the Brotherhood of Steel gets its supplies from the Commonwealth. The Quartermaster upfront says they have to trade or raid the local farms because they don't have a logistics train which allows them to carry on the war as long as they're doing this.

That's....horrific in terms of wartime preparation and has defeated thousands of armies throughout history.

The BoS have to TAKE the settlements, not destroy them because otherwise they will starve.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Teagan
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Feeding_the_Troops

But the people will starve too.

Yeah right, the Minutemen are going to defend themselves against a BoS attack squadron when they can't even defend themselves against super mutants, raiders, and ferals without my character's constant intervention.

Have any bridges you guys wanna sell me, while you're at it?

Unless the Minutemen destroy their crops by themselves, most settles would cooperate with the BoS instead of setting everything on fire and trying to escape from the Vertibirds

The player is basically the Minutemen. Nothing gets done unless I do it by myself and being "the general" is basically just a hobby for the player.

Yes, they probably will but let's not turn the Brotherhood of Steel into a kind of Gary Stu Super-Army. They were overstretched, unfamiliar with the terrain, and bluntly the previous excursions into the Commonwealth were complete disasters for them. Both prior units got wiped out and the only reason Danse's group survives is because of getting reinforcements.

The thing is that the Commonwealth is far from their base in the Capital Wasteland and the only way they could make it to the Commonwealth is in the Prydwen, which gets blown away by the artillery of the Minutemen. Afterward, they have to travel ALLLLLL THE WAY back to the Capital Wasteland on foot, raise an army, then travel all the way back to the Commonwealth to strike at the Minutemen.

However many surviving Vertibirds are the complete limit of rapid deployment in the Commonwealth and we've seen they're vulnerable to laser and rocket fire. They're also useless for transporting an army and don't exist in the kind of numbers to be able to do so, especially as the Prydwen is their hangar and it gets destroyed along with whatever is under it (their main base).

A direct confrontation with the Minutemen outside the Castle will result in a Brotherhood victory 9/10 times because the BoS power armor is in the T-60 form a gamebreaker. However, it requires a steady supply of fusion cells and an army requires a steady supply of food. They also can't blast the hell out of the settlements because they need the settlements and thus have to go from destroying the Minutemen's support to conquering the territory.

In short, the problem is any war against the Minutemen isn't a war against the militia but a war against the Commonwealth.

And look at it from the perceptive of the settlers, you helped them out once or twice and now you drag them into a war and want that they burn down their farms. That's not a fair deal.

It's not a difficult speech check to point out the BoS intended to annex the Commonwealth as their second Kingdom (what do you call a BoS-ruled state anyway?)

Obviously, you have every intelligent ghoul in the Commonwealth behind you too.

Also, every Synth.

Nothing unites people like genocide.

That's only because of the stupid AI though. If the Vertibird disengaged and simply left the combat zone when it gets dangerously damaged it would take a hell of a lot more to bring one down. It's only because they will continue to attack even if they are down to a single hitpoint that they always die in the end.

Which is exactly why they don't stand a chance against BoS ground forces. The only reason they potentially make it as far as they do is because they're the Mary Sue faction. Literal plot immunity.

Well, the reason they win against the BOS ground forces is because the BoS has been fighting Super Mutants and Synths this entire time and just suffered the catastrophic loss of virtually its entire force.

It's like if someone nuked the NCR airport base in the Mojave.

After that, yes, there's other camps, but the war is over.

Also, the Minutemen Castle is fortified with turrets, artillery, and guys with advanced weapons. In a direct war with the BOS, it would be a curb-stomp battle but the battle is lost before it begins.

Unlike the Minutemen, who can't even fight against those factions and constantly lose ground to them unless the main character magic man swoops in and saves their sorry asses.

The BoS is in the same boat though. About all they can do without my help is crash vertibirds into small groups of raiders or super mutants and hope the resulting explosion kills the target. It's hardly a sustainable strategy. At least I can run the Minutemen and correct their problems. The BoS have an incompetent leader that you can't replace. The choice is pretty clear to me which to support.

Any war between the BoS and the Minutemen will be a total surprise for the BoS anyway. They have their hands full in a kamikaze war against raiders and mutants while trying to find synths. They aren't going to see the Minutemen coming until it's too late.

The point is the BoS won't carpet bomb settlements from vertibirds to try and 'win' as they'd just have to leave the Commonwealth anyway.

Don't forget about the critical design flaw... in order to use the vertibirds primary (only?) weapon, it has to have the big side door open. This exposes the pilot to area damage and stray gunfire. I suspect that is why vertibirds crash so often. The pilot doesn't get power armor.

Yep.

No one is arguing the Minutemen versus the BoS without the Prydwen's destruction would be anything other than a slaughter.

The question is:

1. Could the Minutemen hold off the revenge attack?

2. Could the Minutemen survive the repercussions of destroying the ECBOS' aircraft carrier and killing its leader.

But they can blast the hell out of the settlements where the artillery is located.

If the Minutemen just announce over the radio "attack the airship" people might refuse to do so, because they don't want to be dragged into war with the BoS. And if they take the time to convince the settlers of their plans, chances are good that someone tells the BoS. Preston is the only character I know who complains about them, beside the institute and the Railroad.

The Commonwelth doesn't hate the BoS. What have they done, beside killing raiders and super mutants? They demand food from the settlers, but so do the Minutemen.

No. Literally the only reason the Minute men stand a chance against anything is because they have a magical person on their side who can poof 100 laser turrets into existence in the blink of an eye and fight armies of super mutants by himself. If you look at ground capabilities of and armaments of both forces, then the fighting is completely one-sided.

Once again, the minute men cannot stand toe-to-toe with ferals on the ground. Their fighting capabilities are complete garbage, and they don't have military training and coordination, unlike the BoS. Most importantly, they don't have power armor or power armor training, which is THE trump card where infantry battles are concerned. Lets not get started on the relative resources of both factions, even without taking the prydwynn into consideration.

The Minutemen aren't a democracy either.

But many people in the commonwealth hate Synths and ghouls especially Synths.

The last point couldn't be further from the truth. -Just mentioned genocide not me- Look at France during WW2.

Many people? Nah. They hate the Institute and the fact that they replace their family with synths. They dont hate synths. Valentine is a prime example, and the Institute ending has synths living in harmony with Diamond City people and they don't seem too hot and bothered about it. Sure some hate them, but there are always those people.

From the perspective of settlers, most of them came in with nothing and the Minutement constructed farms for them to tend, pumps and purifiers for clean water, power for lights and music, and defenses against the horrors of the wastes. The BoS mainly just crash vertibirds around, probably killing a few settlers as collateral damage... while demanding food and just mowing down anyone in the way. Well.. mowing is a vast overstatement. More likely the settlers were all 'Oh those super mutants over there are bad news... stay away!'....and then the BoS Knight was all 'Nah mang, I got his' before rushing in and getting murdered by a swarm of super mutants with heavy weapons. I think the settlers would see the BoS as unpredictable and dangerous. Meanwhile, the Minutemen seem to be their only hope at a good life. The Diamond City radio broadcasts seem to reflect that sentiment. The DJ is afraid of getting murdered by the BoS, while he acknowledges that whatever is good for the Minutemen is good for everyone.

When it comes down to the wire, the people are going to throw their lot in with the group that has given them a place to call home.

I really wish the game had story arc that let you take control over the Commonwealth BoS.. perhaps leading them to separate from the main BoS and claim/rebuild the Commonwealth. I love the BoS..or rather what they were. Now they're just garbage.

I don't know about you... but I equip my Minutemen. If you give them good armor and proper weapons, they can slaughter about anything. I doubt BoS power armor would even pose much of a challenge.... i might have to spawn in some knights and give it a test run. Also, power armor apparently requires very little training. You can leave it around and even a lowly settler with a pipe pistol can jump in and use it to fight.

On the other hand, I'm beginning to suspect that the BoS presence in the Commonwealth was a setup from back home to get rid of an ineffective leader. I'm not sure how else to explain the how terribly ill-conceived this whole expedition is.

Yes. I already established that the only reason the minute men stand a chance is because they're the Mary Sue faction, with a magical person on their side who can construct Enclave bases overnight as long as they've scavenged enough wrenches and slaughtered enough Super Mutant armies.

Valentine isn't a gen3 Synth. In most cities there are people who aim at each other and suspect each other of being a synth. They kill family members because they are so terrified of Synths. Most of them would certainly not mind when someone "takes care of them".