When the game starts the "Minutemen" are basically just one guy and at the end they destroy the institute or take down the Prydwen, that simply doesn't make sense. At first I though their job were just holding enemies up until additional forces could, like the real Minutemen, that would have made sense, but they basically do everything on their own.

The BoS is basically a science cult, that has real scientists and real scientist_computers, but when this mechanic guy anolysis the same holotape, he suddenly finds a better way to defeat the institute. They don't even have a proper command structure. They are just a bunch of people who are solely driven by their vague sense of justice.

It doesn't take much to take an airship down, but they would never be able to fend off the brotherhood, especially if you consider that howitzers don't work very well against aircrafts.

The Railroad is a different case, they use guerrilla tactics and have a real cause: combating slavery.

And if the institute wished to destroy them, they could easily infiltrate them with some gen3 synths.

If you have to put a spoiler tag in the topic title, then please put it in the spoiler section of the forum.

LOL have you played other Fallouts??

I'm not convinced the Brotherhood of Steel is all that really... I've seen raiders with a random assortment of pipe rifles bring down vertibirds. I tend to think of those vertibirds as suicide bombers more than proper combat aircraft. Yeah... some power armor is nice, but no match for artillery! My minutemen already have 8 power armor sitting in a shed. By the time I reach the end of the story, I'll have the minutemen far better outfitted than thetechnophobic PoS.. I mean... BoS. I've got the Atom Cats on my side as well. Minutemen and Atom Cats...by the people, for the people, and swellegantly stylish!

The entire game is very "unrealiistc".

Posting a major spoiler in the non-spoiler section (ever with a [SPOILER] tag) is not acceptable.

Ummm...

Dude, would you like to know how they take down the Brotherhood?

Also, you can only take down the Institute if you have eight settlements.

In other words, the idea is you have built the Minutemen into a Commonwealth spanning mini-NCR.

That's another unrealistic thing: Why use precious vertibird for combat instead of deploying troops and the leaving? Or why do they use these useless machine guns instead of dropping bombs?

But all of this only works if the BoS uses it's resources in the most in in inefficient way possible.
Dropping bombs from the Vertibirds would be far more efficient than firing the board machine guns until someone takes it down. And they would see that they are building artillery and either destroy them or keep their airship away from them.

Building the Airship in the first place wasn't a good idea.

If present these tactics (airships and Vertibird machine guns) as meaningful, you have to be consistent and enforce that they work.

Because the Brotherhood of Steel is a Codex-defined organization with a limited amount of technology they can use and no experience save what they've learned in hands on training with Enclave tech.

The Minutemen probably defeat the Brotherhood the same way NCR did.

The Brotherhood of Steel is a clan of warriors.

The Minutemen and NCR are SOLDIERS.

Gameplay reasons for the Vertiberds.

They do have to balance them as an enemy, so giving them the combat power they deserve would absolutely ruin players who go against the BoS.

Well, the simple fact is the Brotherhood of Steel may not have many bombs to drop given all of their technology is scavenged. Likewise, there's probably not that much in the way of Vertibirds left given, again, you blow the hell out of their home base from miles away.

I think it's a appropriate and karmic end for the Brotherhood.

NRC is a real nation with taxes and an organized military, they grew for over 50 years before the war against the BoS started.

The idea that enough random people would simply volunteer to fight out of the goodness of one's heart is quixotic. The Minutemen don't fight for free they basically have to pay for it, because someone has to pay for their ammunition and food.

And they don't have any internal conflicts despite their lax command structure, the fact people they could leave whenever they want or the lack of a common ideology.

Where are you getting all this?

The entire point of the Minutemen is they are supported by settlements in exchange for protection. Caps, Guns, Food, and More all get transferred to your work benches as representing the Minutemen's progress.

It's a pretty common arrangement in the real world.

As for a lax command structure, where are you getting that? It has a General, Preston, and people underneath them.

As for internal conflicts, that's what destroyed them. Preston says as much. I don't know where you're getting the lack of idealogy or leaving part too.

again if you present something as meaningful you have to be consistent and ignore the obvious flaws. Image in the middle of the harry potter series, people discovered that guns are much more effective than attack spells. I totally admit that would be pretty cool, but it would be totally stupid.

The Brotherhood of Steel has always been presented as incredibly powerful but incredibly arrogant, flawed, and idolatrous in their worship of technology. The depiction of the Brotherhood of Steel in Fallout 4 is consistent with the Brotherhood of Steel in New Vegas. They assume they are the most powerful force in the Wasteland other than the Institute and ignore the Minutemen completely.

This, despite the fact they are becoming the 3rd most powerful faction in the Commonwealth with dozens of settlements supporting them if you do all their radiant quests.

The Brotherhood basically overestimates the power of technology versus the power of solid Diesalpunk engineering. NCR beat them with mininukes, missles, grenades, rocket launchers, artillery, and sheer numbers.

The Minutemen win because of artillery and the fact the entire Commonwealth is united against them.

But in the real world it is organized and there are people who collect and distribute such resources. Without that anyone could claim to be a Minutemen and get food for free. And who would come after you if you joined the Minutemen and stayed at home when they called you?

If you visit farmers in order to collect food for the BoS no one mentions that he already supports the Minutemen.

That someone calls you general doesn't mean you have a proper command structure.

Well, they only believe you when you kill Raiders and Super Mutants.

Actions speak louder than words.

I agree, some ragtag group of militia formed in a couple months or so shouldn't be able to defeat the Brotherhood when they attack the Castle especially given how that fight goes.

How they took down the Prydwen seems reasonable, but to me the game seemed to suggest that a lot of the projected power was out and about doing stuff in the Commonwealth. So destroying it would obviously hurt the leadership of the Brotherhood, but I don't think it would cripple the Brotherhood enough in order for the Minutemen to triumph since most of the Brotherhood's fighting power went to the Commonwealth.

The Minutemen just seem like the ending you have to take if you mess up all the other ones.

We don't know how much of it went to the Commonwealth, only the Prydwen.

We also don't know if everyone goes to attack the Minutemen.

One might thing some would want to retreat to the Capital Wasteland instead.

But yes, in a "realistic" scenario, the Sole Survivor and his companions have potentially a small army of incredibly dangerous individuals and have fortified it heavily.

How the described the Prydwen in game suggested to me that most of their fighting force was there. I recall either Maxson or Kells saying that it allows the Brotherhood to mobilize its entire division and field it anywhere at a moments notice.

The Brotherhood retreating seems like the only reasonable way the Minutemen would "win" to me.

They are not united against them. They have far bigger problems like mutants and monsters.

And they are not presented as incredibly arrogant, flawed, and idolatrous. They are the same BoS that wins against the enclave in the capital wastelands and activates the purifier, in fact you meet Arthur Maxson in Fallout3.

If they were why would they preemptively destroy the Railroad organization?

NRC is a real nation with taxes and an organized military, they grew for over 50 years before the war against the BoS started.

I think it also helps to remember Gameplay and Story Segregation.

In this world, Laser Weapons were designed to pierce Power Armor, which is part of the reason why everyone uses them in the Great War and the Brotherhood destroys any Wastelanders who possess them. Except, the Minutemen have their own crude but very functional "crank" laser weapons which means that they're an entire army of people with weapons which can fight the BOS.

But yes, the majority of the BOS retreating or not being part of the attack seems like the best way to handle this.

Uhm, Arthur Maxson has ruined Lyon's Brotherhood.

Paladin Danse expresses his contempt for Elder Lyons' dialogue and the Minutemen if you take him to the Castle.

"The Minutemen remind me of Elder Lyons' vision for the Brotherhood - foolish and wasteful."

"Elder Lyons was a tired old man replaced by a far greater one."

Doctor Li also expresses her disgust for how the Brotherhood abused Project Purity to aid their military objectives.

The Minutemen are kinda foolish, because the idea that a military without proper commands structure would work is foolish.

But they are not so arrogant that they would wait until the Minutemen finish building their artillery, they preemptively destroy the Railroad organization.

NRC is a real nation with taxes and an organized military, they grew for over 50 years before the war against the BoS started. And it took them some time to defeat them.