"The moment you start to approach Skyrim as a game...

Post » Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:33 pm

is the moment it starts to get brittle and threatens to crack."

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim asset

This is Skyrim at its best. When you accept it on its own flawed and often brittle terms. When you look past the FedEx delivery quests, almost all of which come down to going someplace to get a doo-dad. When you let the lore and dialogue and scripting carry you along. When you embrace what it's trying to do instead of scrutinizing what it actually does. When you just let it happen. This is when Skyrim will reward you most richly. Not when you're trying to win, or beat it, or get to the end, or level up, or earn the achievements. Not when you're playing it like a stat-based RPG, or a single-player MMO, or a challenge. Skyrim is putatively a game. More accurately, it's a narrative loom.

Bethesda has been trying this approach for a while, but never in a place as rich as this. The beauty of Skyrim -- the game and the place -- is that it's a combination of variety, thematic unity, and careful use of an aging but adequate graphics engine. Although these are mostly cold hardscrabble plains with patches of snowy waste, that's not all they are. Skyrim is a place of degrees of cold, of lowlands and mountains, of old and new, of cultural and civil strife, of international intrigue. Rivers and stories run through it. Skyrim is every bit as good as Red Dead Redemption when it comes to presenting a varied but thematically unified world, and peppering it with life, activities, and even evocative emptiness. Remember all those cookie cutter dungeons in Oblivion? You won't find Bethesda taking any world-building shortcuts like that here.

But Skyrim isn't just a world. It's also an RPG in which the leveling is almost beside the point. Like so many other things in Skyrim, it happens, but it hardly feels worth chasing. There's very little of the forward pull you get in an RPG with a good character development system. Leveling up is a strange combination of money, crafting, combat, stealth, lockpicking, and almost anything else you'll do. Basically, you just play and it happens. It's more like aging than leveling up. There is nary an experience point to be found of all of Skyrim, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have some of the trappings you expect when you're earning experience points. For instance, the references to monster levels. I learn a spell that only affects enemies up to level 10. How am I supposed to know what level this frost troll is? What are these bandits? Do wolves have levels? Why am I suddenly fretting about this?

The moment you start to approach Skyrim as a game, and at times you can hardly help it, is the moment it starts to get brittle and threatens to crack. As a game, Skyrim is sometimes profoundly broken, and not just because of the occasional bugs and busted AI scripting. This is all too often a frail illusion that will collapse under its own weight, if not the weight of Bethesda's traditionally sloppy testing or their utter cluelessness when it comes to usability issues. Welcome to one of the worst interfaces this side of a Pip Boy. You'd think a game so full of trash loot and inconsequential frippery would put a priority on managing all that detail. Instead, you get to scroll through myriad lists, sometimes while the action is paused with a battle axe swinging towards your skull or a spell poised to leave your fingertips. This is not a fluid experience, much less a graceful one. The hand-to-hand combat is an exercise in flailing, the magic is a list of spells as long as your arm and just as unwieldy to reference, and the stealth is as contrived as ever. This is still an engine clearly built for a first-person shooter, which means archers have it easiest and everyone else just has to make do.

For all Bethesda's ambition, why haven't they gotten better at the basics of moment-to-moment gameplay? This is the same game they've been making since 2002's Morrowind. In fact, you can trace this design as far back as Bethesda's 1990 Terminator game, in which you played Kyle Reese battling the Terminator across an open map of Los Angeles. Has any other developer worked with the same basic idea for more than two decades and still asked you to accept such fundamental compromises as this sloppy melee system, overbearing inventory management, and brittle AI scripting? When so many other issues have been solved, when computers and console systems are finally ready to realize Bethesda's ambitious vision, why do these more pedestrian issues persist? For the most part, Skyrim is a triumph of world building that deserves recognition, praise, and the many hours you'll pour into it. But Skyrim is also a disappointing punt.


Yeah, obviously this will get flamed by the masses, but this is exactly how I felt the entire time trying to "play" it as a game. I can't. If I don't simply shut off my brain and just let the game do it's own thing while I move my character around, it just becomes so painfully obvious what Skyrim isn't. I've been saying that it's more like an interactive storybook than an actual game, and at least I know one other person that's not insane...or they are just as crazy as I am anyway. Sorry, I need some gameplay with my exposition, but I guess I'm in the minority since "Whoah cool graphics" just aren't enough.

http://www.honestgamers.com/reviews/9740.html
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Anthony Diaz
 
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Post » Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:46 am

By all means go play a real game like MW3 or AC:R.
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Jenna Fields
 
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Post » Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:08 pm

Don't agree with that review at all.
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Peter lopez
 
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Post » Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:36 am

Well, I'm obviously not playing the same Skyrim as you are, did you make sure to check the box?

Sounds like you picked up a documentary called Skyrim, which is so weird, because I've been playing this game called Skyrim.

Did Bethesda release a documentary about it, as well? I wouldn't mind checking it out, it might just make playing this game so much more epic!
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Conor Byrne
 
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Post » Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:25 am

By all means go play a real game like MW3 or AC:R.


LOL!
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Jani Eayon
 
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Post » Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:52 am

Agreed completely. The depth of the combat and gameplay is no where near the depth of the world. God, I can only imagine if it was. How much grander Skyrim would be.

Oh well, the world is such a joy to explore that I can ignore so much of what could be done better, or is simply done wrong.
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David Chambers
 
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Post » Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:43 am

We're apparently not playing the same Skyrim.
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dav
 
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Post » Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:49 am

game 1 (gm)
n.
1. An activity providing entertainment or amusemant;

sure it is
and how does leveling up resemble aging
I don't become way more awesome and powerful as I get older
in fact the opposite seems to be true XD

the game however does increase your strength and capabilities as you level up
can't decapitate foes with a single blow at the start of the game or disarm them with a shield bash or shout them of cliffs etc.
the fact that there's no spread sheets to divide your points doesn't mean anything
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Stace
 
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Post » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:31 am

Okay I thanks for posting this because you led me to investigate Bethesdas Terminator game from 1990, of which I have found a rather amusing video. I know there are a lot of random objects you can find/buy in elderscrolls games but it seems they have cut down on that since the Terminator game, in which you could buy things such as comdoms and a [censored], lol. As the video commentator points out, "why would a terminator want a preganancy test".
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dell
 
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Post » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:42 am

A lot of people on this forum really, really, need to engage their brains before replying to, let alone starting, threads. How about trying something novel and actually thinking about what the OP has said for once?
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jason worrell
 
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Post » Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:51 pm

i agree with the post, its a fair assessment i feel.

i mean, these guys have been at this for 20 years and for a game to be as unpolished as this in so many simple ways either speaks ineptitude in those speific areas or lazyness to address them.

great game, but its as dated as it is pretty.
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Lil Miss
 
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Post » Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:45 am

A lot of people on this forum really, really, need to engage their brains before replying to, let alone starting, threads. How about trying something novel and actually thinking about what the OP has said for once?


you mean like how you reacted to and/or rebutted anything they said?
oh wait
you didn't XD
you just called every1 stupid, how very constructive of you
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Shelby Huffman
 
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Post » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:57 am

game 1 (gm)
n.
1. An activity providing entertainment or amusemant;

lol the OP and reviewer failed to understand the actual definition of the word :rofl:
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GEo LIme
 
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Post » Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:12 pm

lol the OP and reviewer failed to understand the actual definition of the word :rofl:


i like how in the day of bling, whazzup, and other fake or misspronounced words. you find it acceptable to quote a exact dictionary definition and assume its what the writer meant it as.

believe it or not, dictionaries are largely outdated. games are more then that nowadays.
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Jamie Moysey
 
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Post » Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:49 am

If you changed the word "Game" to the word "RPG" than the reviewer is actually pretty much on point.
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JD bernal
 
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Post » Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:28 pm

Some things I agree with, some things I don't in that review. The game is very pretty, but I wish I had more fun playing it.
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Dan Stevens
 
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Post » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:39 pm

I agree with that review and the OP. Ive been playing Bethesda games since Daggerfall. I love their games but the aticle is accurate imo.
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Hannah Barnard
 
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Post » Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:11 pm

If you changed the word "Game" to the word "RPG" than the reviewer is actually pretty much on point.


well maybe if he used traditional RPG's or something along those lines
no rule saying RPG's can't evolve from the statistics based spread sheets into something more organic
you could even argue it's more of an action RPG compare to the more traditional RPG's of old

but that's more an argument of preference than quality
none of that means it isn't a game
or a good one at that
all depends on what you expect/want from an RPG and is in no way an objective or quantifiable statement

simply put
that's like your opinion, man
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Jessica Phoenix
 
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Post » Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:45 am

believe it or not, dictionaries are largely outdated. games are more then that nowadays.


Hahahaha, oh wow.

"Man, who cares what a word actually means, it's about how I say it!"

Even the words you referenced (bling, etc...) have actual, understood definitions.

You do realize that without having a proper definition for a word, language essentially becomes meaningless as a form of communication?

But I do wish you the best of luck, should you ever have to engage in a class or discussion regarding linguistics, and decide to make that same assertion.
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GRAEME
 
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Post » Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:25 pm

- UI gripe
- gripe about what it means to level
- gripe that there arnt enough engaging set pieces
- gripe that the game level never lets you feel like youre winning with some arbitrary mechanism
- gripe about bug testing and QA
- gripe about cumbersome combat
- gripe about cumbersome inventory system
- gripe that Beth is using a formula that shifts units and gets critical acclaim

how tiresome...

I've been saying that it's more like an interactive storybook than an actual game,


this is a bad thing why?
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Justin Hankins
 
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Post » Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:47 am

It depends entirely on what you mean when you say "approach it as a game" and several of the other (subjective) things the reviewer mentioned.


Personally, I approach every game as a "game".... but that doesn't mean that I approach it as a set of rules to meta- or power-game. Different things.

In the end, I don't really agree with that article at all - it doesn't match my experience with Skyrim. :shrug:

I certainly don't feel any need to "turn my brain off" in order to enjoy it (and/or in order to not min/max/break it).
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Sarah Kim
 
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Post » Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:08 am

Skyrim: Pretty, broad, but shallow. You can't delve too deeply in one particular area or you quickly run out of content and see all the issues. It's an excellent environment for heavy modding though.
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Tikarma Vodicka-McPherson
 
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Post » Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:48 am

game1 ? ?[geym]

1. an amusemant or pastime.


Seems to fit.
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Nana Samboy
 
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Post » Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:15 pm

Hahahaha, oh wow.

"Man, who cares what a word actually means, it's about how I say it!"

Even the words you referenced (bling, etc...) have actual, understood definitions.

You do realize that without having a proper definition for a word, language essentially becomes meaningless as a form of communication?

But I do wish you the best of luck, should you ever have to engage in a class or discussion regarding linguistics, and decide to make that same assertion.



yes i do, looks like someone doesnt keep track of world events /rollseyes, the human language has already devolved to the point where two english speaking people of the same family can have a conversation on two different topics and not realize it. the spoken/written language is actually a fairly sloppy form of communication, relying more on artitic scope then accurate definition.

some people are so damn narrowminded and black and white they cant even think in a slightly out of the box way.

dictionaries are outdated because even without tem the words spoken and ther emeaning change over time, more meanings, different meanings, etc. bling DID NOT EXIST until enough people said the word and some dictionary added it in.

you apparently didnt knkow this...and you make me out to be the dolt...

some people are hopeless.
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Kelvin
 
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Post » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:18 pm

yes i do, looks like someone doesnt keep track of world events /rollseyes, the human language has already devolved to the point where two english speaking people of the same family can have a conversation on two different topics and not realize it. the spoken/written language is actually a fairly sloppy form of communication, relying more on artitic scope then accurate definition.

some people are so damn narrowminded and black and white they cant even think in a slightly out of the box way.

dictionaries are outdated because even without tem the words spoken and ther emeaning change over time, more meanings, different meanings, etc. bling DID NOT EXIST until enough people said the word and some dictionary added it in.

you apparently didnt knkow this...and you make me out to be the dolt...

some people are hopeless.


and you're not arguing semantics?
how is some1 bringing up the statement any different than you trying to argue it?

forget about the [censored] word and actually argue the point for crying out loud
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Nicholas
 
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