Okay

So....what?

(I am not a mind reader. I don't know what you meant.)

I'm only discussing this in relation to Factions. I mean, you're not going to be discussing the middle path in relation to itself so clearly it must apply to one of the factions.

I'm asking if you mean the Minutemen.

In fact, I've asked you a few times what you think the best faction is for the Commonwealth and why. I'd like to know since that's what the topic is about.

He waged an unproked war of aggression against the Institute, has been waging wars against outside settlements, and intends to annex the Commonwealth as he did the Capital Wasteland.

There.

wasn't that the point?

Sometimes I think the Brotherhood are the good guys, then I hear all the venom for friendly Synths and Ghouls. And while I haven't met any other Faction yet I wish I could smack some sense into their leaders. If I have a Charisma of ten and buffs out my [censored] there's no way I shouldn't be able to speak to them about their beliefs.

You can also talk to Elder Maxson about it.

The subtext is chilling.

"Yeah, [X character] may actually be a person but we can't acknowledge that because it would undermine our authority."

An war of aggression that's new, I have only heard of wars of love and compassion.

First of all the war against the Institute is certainly not unproked. And second annexing something doesn't make you a warmonger.

If anyone is a warmonger than Preston, he starts a war against the BoS. Despite the fact that their interests aren't contradictory, he never even tries to negotiate. This war will be long and involving heavy losses.

"Conspiracy to wage aggressive war" is good enough for Nuremberg.

1. The Institute didn't attack the Brotherhood. The Brotherhood attacked the Institute.

2. Preston doesn't attack the BoS unless you order it. You can complete the game friendly to the Brotherhood and Minutemen.

The Minutemen ending also doesn't require destroying the BoS.

That's pretty moderate. Any brutal warmonger would have shot [X character] in the face and and probably executed the Sole Survivor too.

Charisma 14, man.

It's the Mentats and tricorn.

It's a preventive Defensive war and it's allowed. There is no doubt that the Institute would have attack the BoS.

When you tell him you want to attack the BoS he tells you that he also wants to attack them.

In how far is Preston not involved in a "conspiracy to wage aggressive war"?

I had charisma 9 and it worked.

And what would it take to convince And SS-officer?

Given we can convince Colonel Autumn to leave, probably a 80/100 Speech check.

You can also convince the Enclave scientist (another Nazi) to turn against his people as well as Sergeant Rock in Fallout 2.

Damn, that's just cold. :<

Maxon, what happened to you, man? D:

You only convince him that you will kick his ass if he doesn't leave. You don't make him turn a blind eye to something.

Could you give me more context on the Enclave scientist?

The Enclave Scientist is the one conducting the FEV experiments which will create the plague which will wipe out all Wastelanders and other humans afflicted by radiation so the Enclave can resettle the Earth. You can, with a series of very difficult speech checks, make him realize you're a human being. This results in him having a nervous breakdown and filling the Oil Rigg with the FEV plague which kills everyone BUT the citizens of Arryo and Vault citizens (as well as the Enclave soldiers in Power Armor).

He couldn't deal with the fact he was killing human beings and torturing them versus "mutants."

Because this scientist is just a follower, we was simply feed this ideology. You are currently trying to convince me that one could also convince an SS-officer, but this Scientist can be compared with an SS-Officer, he is just a follower.

I'm done.

The only choice you have in this game is who you commit mass murder against, and that's a good thing?

You haven't proven that Maxson is a "brutal warmonger", nor that Preston isn't.

Indeed, the factional moral ambiguity in this game is probably the best FO faction conflict yet. FO1 and FO3 had glorified bad ends if you joined the enemy, FO2 had only one MQ end and only NV and FO4 have multiple factions choice. And unlike NV which is karma-based in its choices, FO4 just gives a conflict, different sides with their merits and disadvantages and doesn't allow you to get a happy end. If you joined all the factions earlier, you will be forced to betray some and kill people you were once friends with. Truly, a tragedy of a war...

No more false than having no agency in the story at all.

There is enough agency in the story. It is realistic, makes one seriously consider what to do and only pisses off people who either want an evil ending, a good ending or a satisfying ending. Goo and evil endings are shallow while satisfying endings miss the whole point of choice-and-consequence.

Honestly, it's a post-apocalyptic wasteland. Innocent people are dying every day. The four major factions are all "good guys" going about helping people in different ways. All of them are of the assumption that the end justifies the means.

There really is no moral dilemma here because any choice you make ends with a lot of innocent people dying. You're really only asked to choose whatever faction you like the most. There's not much more thought that has to go in it.

I liken it to the Stormcloaks vs. Imperials choice.

Neither side is perfect.

But if you don't help either, the war will drag on and kill many more innocent people.

Better to end it now.