The Most powerful Great House?

Post » Wed May 02, 2012 10:36 pm

Between these 5 great houses, not counting house dagoth, For this thread, the red year, oblivion crisis never happened.

House Dres
House Hlaalu
House Indroil
House Redoran
House Telvanni

When they were all at full power, which great house..
1. Has the most troops?
2. Has the best infantry?
3. has the most terrority?
4. Has the best town/city defense?

And if they were to go to war with each other during their primes, which house would come out on top? if no other faction interferes?
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Dona BlackHeart
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 9:08 pm

From what I understand and from what I can guess: Hlaalu is probably the most powerful (very progressive, open to the rest of the Empire), I wouldn't be surprised if Dres has been nearly dissolved following the Red Year and the Argonian's subsequent vengeance, I don't think Telvanni is completely gone but it must be pretty weakened if the story of Brand-Shei's father is true, if I recall correctly, Redoran was already on the way out during the events of Morrowind (the opposite of Hlaalu, very traditional), and I do not know very much about House Indoril. As for the other, specific questions, I don't think anyone can answer that with anything remotely close to accuracy.

Though I don't think any of them are particularly "powerful" at the moment, but there must be some rumblings in Morrowind, and the surviving Dunmer of the old Houses are probably coalescing again.
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Tyrel
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 2:43 pm

i wonder if anything is left of them at all since the red year with all thats happened?
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His Bella
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 10:58 am

Redoran is the warrior house, but Hlaalu has deep pockets and isn't afraid to ask Daddy Uriel for help. House Indoril lays claim to the insanely elite Her Hands, but Telvanni Magisters are some of the most powerful mages on Nirn. Not much is known about Dres other than the fact that they're the pre-Civil War South.
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Christina Trayler
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 8:12 pm

It's funny that none of your specific questions would be answered "Telvanni" but the over-all answer to your question probably is "Telvanni." Who was it that stared into the open maw of hell and saw an opportunity to steal its teeth? Telvanni.
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kevin ball
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 7:50 am

Telvanni is the most powerful I'd say since magic is the real power in TES.
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Eileen Müller
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 9:31 am

See, the Telvanni may be individually powerful, but they're unwilling or unable to leverage that personal power into political or economic power. They just couldn't care less about the world around them, each other, or anything but their own fascination with the arcane. So, while your individual Telvanni Lord may well be capable of, say, summoning hordes of Daedra or surpassing the boundaries of life and death itself, as a House they're not as powerful as Hlaalu or Indoril. Add in the fact that they barely communicate with each other except when attempting some assassination or other and you have less a cohesive organization and more a disparate collection of semifeudal mage-lords who each rule their fiefs independently and as they see fit.

I suppose you could argue that if the Telvanni actually bothered to look beyond their own noses they'd be a terrifying force to be reckoned with, but the ability to look beyond one's own nose is not a widely-held virtue amongst the Telvanni, Aryon being a rare exception.
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Susan Elizabeth
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 6:05 pm

Gotta go with Alpharius. Hlaalu are the political guys, and politics win wars.
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Mandy Muir
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 5:33 pm

Going to also go with Alpharius, save for the Indoril part. Ever since Vivec signed the treaty with Tiber Septim, Indoril has been in some bad decline, due to the top brass of the house committing mass suicide.

After Hlaalu, I'd say Telvanni, followed by Dres, then Redoran, with Indoril as the weakest. There's even dialog in OB that Indoril is nothing more than a carcass, with Helseth picking away at it.
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Czar Kahchi
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 1:37 pm

Eh. Given that Morrowind is a theocracy, and how tightly interwoven Indoril is with the Tribunal Temple, I'm inclined to grant them more power than they'd otherwise have. They control a relatively central and prosperous section of Morrowind, to boot, and are fairly cohesive as an organization despite the mass suicide of the leadership three centuries ago. They've been in a steep decline with the ascendency of the Empire, but my view is that, where the Temple is strong, they're strong. I think that Redoran is weakest, given how poor their leadership is and their lands are, and how unwilling they are to acclimate to change despite sharing a border with the Empire.
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Raymond J. Ramirez
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 4:19 pm

Yeah, but the Tribunal practically fell by Oblivion, House Indoril is even more hardcoe than Redoran, and as mentioned already, Helseth was picking away at what became the carcass of Indoril.
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Ashley Clifft
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 2:30 pm

I suppose I should have mentioned that the time period I was referencing was during the events of Morrowind itself, rather than immediately afterwards, given that the OP specified the events of the Oblivion Crisis and Red Year never happen. Afterwards? No question, Indoril is one of the weakest houses, but only by virtue of being nonexistent, along with the rest of Dunmeri society.
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Stryke Force
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 7:57 am

They were each the most powerful at various times.

EDIT:
1. Has the most troops?
Indoril as a great house commanded all the other Houses under Nerevar, so at their prime they would have had the most soldiers. However, this was in the First Era so pupulation must have been smaller (albeit only slightly; we are talking about elves)


2. Has the best infantry?



In Terms of the best "special forces", Indoril t its prime wins again.
In the middle of these answers, Telvanni has strong ground soldiers who just never would cooperate together.
However, the one with the best-trained ground soldiers overall is definitely Redoran.

3. has the most terrority?

Historically, Dres controlled large swathes of Northern Argonia. However, as seen in http://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/g/maps/map_mw_factions.jpg, Hlaalu controlled a LOT when they were raided.

4. Has the best town/city defense?
Indoril. Almalexia is the second most impenetrable city in Morrowind, bested only by the Machine City of Sotha Sil (which, house Sotha having gone extinct, has no allegiance) and Almalexia is followed Necrom, which is owned solidly by Indoril.
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Kaley X
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 1:33 pm

I suppose I should have mentioned that the time period I was referencing was during the events of Morrowind itself, rather than immediately afterwards, given that the OP specified the events of the Oblivion Crisis and Red Year never happen. Afterwards? No question, Indoril is one of the weakest houses, but only by virtue of being nonexistent, along with the rest of Dunmeri society.
I took it to mean after Tribunal, but before Oblivion. Still doesn't change my stance.
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james reed
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 8:09 am

See, the Telvanni may be individually powerful, but they're unwilling or unable to leverage that personal power into political or economic power. They just couldn't care less about the world around them, each other, or anything but their own fascination with the arcane. So, while your individual Telvanni Lord may well be capable of, say, summoning hordes of Daedra or surpassing the boundaries of life and death itself, as a House they're not as powerful as Hlaalu or Indoril. Add in the fact that they barely communicate with each other except when attempting some assassination or other and you have less a cohesive organization and more a disparate collection of semifeudal mage-lords who each rule their fiefs independently and as they see fit. I suppose you could argue that if the Telvanni actually bothered to look beyond their own noses they'd be a terrifying force to be reckoned with, but the ability to look beyond one's own nose is not a widely-held virtue amongst the Telvanni, Aryon being a rare exception.

I think you're confusing the issues of which house exercises the most power, and which house has the most power. When it comes to things like influence over imperial agents, or control of mineral resources, Telvanni has that covered. Iirc, Aryon has a glove that lets you cast a powerful charm spell which will dominate damn near any NPC in the standard game. Most other magisters have at least the capacity to cast such things as spells. Telvanni doesn't bother fighting political or territorial battles because they don't need to control a man or a patch of land in order to get whatever they want from it. They need to get a certain man to act a certain way? They wave their hands and have that man mind-copntrolled. They need a certain resource in a certain area? They can fly, leap over mountains, walk on water, teleport, and become invisible.
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Ludivine Poussineau
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 5:58 pm

Like Hlaalu couldn't buy that service from Mages guild. Or outsiders, like Imperial officials, wouldn't know what Telvanni can do to them? Telvanni basically are one-trick-ponies with their magics. Hlaalu has best relations outside, they have their way with corruption, which with Imperial officials is a good thing. Plus about half of Telvanni leaders seemed almost lunatic and competent only in magical issues. And Telvanni infact did get involved in territorial feuds in TES3. So even when Telvanni has strongpoints they have few weaknesses as well.

Military powers, we know so little. It seems every faction has just guards. Buoyant Armigers seemed to be only force which involved into actual fighting, Redoran were they? Do houses have militia forces, how well it's armed and trained? I don't have no idea.

In TES3 i think Hlaalu infact seemed more powerful that what it actually was, one big thing was their Ebony mine which, if i recall correctly, they thought to be only active ebony mine and which improved their relations with imperials quite a deal... But Redorans had their own (secret?) Ebonymine in base of Red Mountain and i think it was just getting started, i visited it few times and welcoming was pretty hostile (was there any quest related to it?). So Redoran might become important trade partner with Imperials as well, but is that even their plan?
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Cash n Class
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 11:06 pm

Telvanni has Fyr.

Fyr could prolly beat all the other houses at once with one hand tied behind his back.
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Benji
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 2:07 pm

I think; at the height of the Tribunal Temple (before Empire) House Indoril - Redoran - Dres

Imperial Morrowind; Hlaalu - Indoril - Redoran - Dres - (Dagoth?)

Post-Oblivion Crisis/Empire - Hlaalu

Telvanni don't compete instutionally, except for the "younger" generations. When the Telvanni do set their mind towards a thing, they most often acheive it.

I'd also say that any good Telvanni would sneer at their incusion in any of these kind of "listings."
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Natalie Harvey
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 10:17 am

Telvanni has Fyr.

Fyr could prolly beat all the other houses at once with one hand tied behind his back.

actually mr fyr isn't interested in being part of the house, he's been offered a rather high position numerous times but he's more interested in his own research than politics

we even get to deliver him one such offer ourselves in morrowind, if you join the telvanni house
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m Gardner
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 8:11 am

actually mr fyr isn't interested in being part of the house, he's been offered a rather high position numerous times but he's more interested in his own research than politics

we even get to deliver him one such offer ourselves in morrowind, if you join the telvanni house

Yes, thats true.
But with the defeat of (the avatar of) Mannimarco and the dissapearance of Vivec, Divayth Fyr is probably the most powerful being on Tamriel, that we know of.
Potentially powerful enough to defeat all the other houses.
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Jessica Stokes
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 8:52 pm

Yes, thats true.
But with the defeat of (the avatar of) Mannimarco and the dissapearance of Vivec, Divayth Fyr is probably the most powerful being on Tamriel, that we know of.
Potentially powerful enough to defeat all the other houses.

I think Fry should be stronger than the avatar of Mannimarco but weaker than Vivec himself. Also i don't think he could beat all the houses at once, he could probably destroy a few large raids on his own, but not a army.
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Taylah Illies
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 6:32 pm

Fyr had lived for millenia, created life through non-sixual means several times, and subverted the design disease. I get the impression that he's supposed to be godly powerful.
Like Hlaalu couldn't buy that service from Mages guild. Or outsiders, like Imperial officials, wouldn't know what Telvanni can do to them?
No. The Morrowind mages guild doesn't even begin to compare with the power of the centuries-old magisters of House Telvanni, and all throughout Morrowind, you're constantly being hit over the head with how mysterious the Telvanni are, all reclusive in their towers and whatnot. Because they don't flex their muscles, because they don't waste their efforts trying to build up temporal influence, nobody really knows what they're capable of.
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Yonah
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 8:14 pm

I just noticed that we all failed to address the specific question brought up by the OP, and failed to notice a specific prerequisite he set: that each of the Houses is assumed to be in its prime. The question was, if they were to each war with one another barring outside interference at the maximum extent of their influence, who would be victorious?

To my mind, this is a much more straightforward question than the tricky semantic waters of power possessed versus power wielded, let alone how one defines power. To my mind, it basically boils down to Telvanni versus Indoril, Hlaalu and Dres not being known for their martial characters and Redoran being unable to compare with either Telvanni or Indoril at their heights. I daren't wager which of the two would win in a slugfest, but at this point it's all getting pretty silly.
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Dylan Markese
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 5:35 pm

Full on war, with no politics involved, I gotta go with Telvanni. Behind money and politics, comes magic.
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Irmacuba
 
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Post » Wed May 02, 2012 10:22 am

I just noticed that we all failed to address the specific question brought up by the OP, and failed to notice a specific prerequisite he set: that each of the Houses is assumed to be in its prime. The question was, if they were to each war with one another barring outside interference at the maximum extent of their influence, who would be victorious?

To my mind, this is a much more straightforward question than the tricky semantic waters of power possessed versus power wielded, let alone how one defines power. To my mind, it basically boils down to Telvanni versus Indoril, Hlaalu and Dres not being known for their martial characters and Redoran being unable to compare with either Telvanni or Indoril at their heights. I daren't wager which of the two would win in a slugfest, but at this point it's all getting pretty silly.

At their height, Indoril would thrash Telvanni.

They've got a f**king god on their side. Almalexia.
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Emmi Coolahan
 
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