Again though if you're desperate you don't need send part of your forces more than 2000 miles away. That would increase your desperation not relieve it. If Lyons and his men were dissenters who were causing problems that would be a reasonable explanation but the faction profile doesn't say this and indicates otherwise (Lyons gets promotions and is highly regarded by the Lost Hills leadership initially) and the Outcasts prove his expedition was not full of dissenters. It contained more than a few people loyal enough to Lost Hills to betray their Elder.

If it feels odd, go download the HDT physics mod for skyrim, as well as a few of the mods that go with it. Sure, some of them are bouncing boob mods, but there is also at least one hair mod, one cape mod and I think there's even a skirt mod.

Obviously the implementation isn't the best, but it is cool to see it in Skyrim.

While I would find it odd to see the NCR in Fo4 at all, I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see The Followers in Fallout 4.

The Followers have long since been sending out people to learn the languages of tribes, and to see whats in areas that are little explored. NV even mentions the Followers have made it all the way from their base in LA into the heart of Wyoming, where they can met up with the Khans, and teach the Khans things that allow them to start an empire.

Since they can walk around the Legion via Wyoming, they could easily pass through the Midwest, which should be doing ok/be fairly safe since the MwBoS purged all the big radier groups and hostile super mutants decades ago, and from there they could easilty make it into the hellhole of the east coast.

HEck, it's the plotline of Fallout 2: Go get magical item to save our village.

Technology in D.C. doesn't give anyone back in California an edge.

Furthermore Lyons never comes back. Lost Hills just has him stay there. What was the plan? How could that possibly help them? Were they banking on him getting Liberty Prime up and running and walking it all the way back to California? If the situation was desperate why let his order linger there after he goes native? Why not order him back? if he ignores you and goes rogue you've lost nothing since he isn't doing anything to help you anyway and if he obeys you get some troops back.

Or it would be if the plot-line was go find a G.E.C.K and save Arroyo by starting a completely separate village 2000 miles away that Arroyo will have nothing to do with.

I'm now imagining an alternate Fallout 3 where the Brotherhood of Steel flees eastward and meets up with the fleeing Enclave members. Realizing that they have the exact same backstory, they become buddies, and Fallout 3's storyline essentially becomes an extended sitcom series where two whacky roommates with conflicting personalities and Power Armor try to scraqe a living in DC. I can see it now:

The bolded, underlined part is what I was talking about

The entire argument over the BoS sending people out is dumb.

Lyons was sent out 20 years ago, and we have no idea when the BoS/NCR war began. It easily could have happened after he left, as he only fell out of favor with the west coast less then 10 years ago, and he was still in contact with them before then. At the time, they were just looking for new tech, and investigating the rumors of super mutants in the D.C. area.

And no, to everyone saying it, the BoS was not in decline. They had numerous bunkers across California, House mentions he knows of the NCR taking at least 6, and no one in Hidden Valley implies that they and Lost hills are the only ones left, or close to being the only ones left, so they had a good deal more then 8.

"Let me be frank with you. The Brotherhood of Steel is not the power that we once were. We believed ourselves to be the sole source of technology left to mankind. Secure in this belief we have let our order decline over the years."

http://fallout.gamepedia.com/Matthew_%28Fallout_2%29

Derp.

Speaking of which. I think the Maxson bloodline and the west coast bos will make a great game in the future. I don't think we will see it in fallout 4 but there is enough content there to do a full game about. So much to uncover and do.

Yes and?

That statement is one of "we are in decline because everyone else is on the rise", which is a decline of relativity, not one of actual personnel/equipment/bunker loss.

It thus has no bearing on the BoS's ability to send out forces, or anything to do with what I said.

No that is plainly not what that statement is. How do you interpret "we have let our order decline over the years" to mean "we have maintained our order but everyone else has gotten stronger?"

Even if this nonsensical interpretation were true it still does nothing to address the stupidity of further weakening yourselves in the face of a relative decline by sending troops to the other side of an unexplored continent where they can do nothing to assist you or how they learned anything about D.C. in the first place sufficient to prompt the dispatch of this expedition or the inexplicable and completely unexplained about face in Brotherhood policy this represents.

Its the fundamental crux of what he says?

The BoS believed themselves to be the sole source of technology left to mankind, and due to their unwavering following to that notion, they never did anything to improve themselves, or the tech they have captured, because they felt they had no reason too as they were apex, and thus they have stagnated while everyone else keeps making leaps and bounds improvements on all aspects, allowing factions like the NCR to overcome them, thus lowering the power and influence they have on the wasteland.

I'm sorry but, how can you misunderstand such a plain English sentence?

Except, again, their decline has nothing to do with a loss of manpower or technology. Sending Lyons out DOESN'T weaken the BoS in any way shape or form, as their weakness came from their staunch refusal to attempt to change and improve, not things like manpower.

Also, the Wasteland Survival guide made it to Vegas in 4 years time. Cross-country travel/trade hasn't been that difficult for ages. And rumors travel faster then anything.

Right which is why the next sentence he utters is "Now we don't have the resources at our disposal to deal with the Enclave. We need your help." I guess what he actually meant is "We have never had the resources to deal with the Enclave. Our resources have remained totally unchanged in absolute terms but in a relative sense have declined since we must now expend resources worrying about groups like the NCR even though we are currently allied with them and maintain a bunker in their capital."

Even in your completely made up plainly contradicted relative sense of the decline manpower obviously still plays a role and dispatching troops across the country will further weaken you relative to your neighbors who are not sending expeditions more than 2000 miles away.

Curious that that example came after Fallout 3 and was not in a Bethesda game and therefore does nothing whatsoever to disprove my point that Bethesda completely failed at explaining the D.C. expedition. And still no explanation as to why the Brotherhood has completely changed its reclusive tendencies for no reason or why they are launching full-fledged expeditions on the basis of rumors.

Ultimately the Brotherhood's biggest weakness is low population when compared to groups like the NCR. The biggest change the Brotherhood could make to improve their situation would be to enlist outsiders, thus strengthening their numbers.

I guess you could make the argument that regardless of whether Lyons stayed or left, the Brotherhood would still be doomed, and you'd probably be correct honestly, but he still took a good chunk of people with him to the East. Either way, their position had to be have been lessened by sending his party out. That's less Paladins, less skilled Scribes and Knights, and less overall population for breeding/growth.

If you're a Brotherhood hardliner who is never going to change the policy of not recruiting from the outside, then sending Lyons out just weakens your tenuous position further.

The Brotherhood of Steel originally started at the Mariposa Military Base. After the bombs dropped, they raided the base for supplies and weapon schematics and headed to Lost Hills. One of their supplies would obviously be a map of all major military assets. So they have access to a variety of old world military bases, but their limits on recruitment prevents them from effectively using their information.

I would argue even the assumption that they have extensive knowledge of pre-war military sites is again dubious. Keep in mind by Fallout the Brotherhood didn't even know where Mariposa was anymore despite originating from it (this could have been deliberate on Roger Maxson's part) and Sophia outright states that the historical knowledge of the Brotherhood is extremely lacking. However my point was we have no reason whatsoever to assume the Brotherhood has access to a variety of old world bases and evidence against it. They were aware of West-Tek but definitely did not have access to it and considered exploring it too risky and they show no knowledge of the Sierra Army Depot in Fallout 2 and certainly have never had access to it. That's every pre-war military installation that features in Fallout 1/2 and the Brotherhood definitely don't know the location of one, probably don't know the location of the second and definitely don't have any access to any of them.

Yeah the NCR is called The New CALIFORNIA Republic for a reason, they are located in various regions on the West coast, no where near Boston, so I doubt we will even get mentions of them let alone an appearance.

Also I don't like the NCR anyways so them not being in the game is fine by me

I'm fairly certain that 200 years is the number we have to go by, as Todd Howard said during the E3 presser "Events transpire. But you then emerge 200 years later as the sole survivor of Vault 111".

And 200 years is mentioned in game when the Sole Survivor runs into Codsworth, and Codsworth says "Your suffering from hunger induced paranoia. Not eating properly for 200 years will do that I'm afraid.".

There's speculation that the events of Fallout 4 run parallel to Fallout 3.

there is no way we going to see the NCR on Boston, like other post have said, the NCR is cut from reach Boston by the Ligion, so we probabbly will hear about both but not see it as a faction.