Because he Didn't do EVERYTHING.


The champion of cyrodil was also The Listener , Archmage, Grey fox, Grand champion of the arena and Leader of Fighters guild all at once. Then once the Dlc's came by he was also the sane god of madness and a holy warrior dedicated to The nine devines.

In skyrim the dovakhin was a little less likely to be the leader of everything, but he still could be the Archmage, Harbringer of the companions, listener, Nightingale AND a Legate or Stormcloak leader!!


In morrowind most of the guilds had conflicts with other guilds. So in a single playthrough you could never be everything and so the game had about six times more replay value. The Dlc's Didnt go over the top and the former simply extended the main quest whilst the latter had you fight werewolves!


They might be fantasy games, but it feels DUMB that one character can be the boss of everyone! In skyrim you have no problem with killing hundreds of elite imperial agents and killing **** for the dark brotherhood whilst you happen to be IN THE LEGION. In oblivion you can both serve the divines whilst you yourself happen to be a god.. Why can't i use my sheogorath powers to fight mehrunes instead of akatosh doing all the work? Why doesnt the dark brotherhood decide to remove the grey fox?


Seriously- Next tes game i want REPLAY value because i Can't join all guilds at once! Or at least several. Maybe some radiant quests might pop up that go against another guild if you have to many?

I mostly agree with your sentiment but this really has nothing to do with "Who was a better hero".

In Morrowind I could be leader of the Fighters Guild, Mages Guild, Imperial Legion, Tribunal Temple, Morag Tong, House Redoran and (through a glitch) House Hlaalu in one playthrough. Your argument is incredibly silly, and invalid.

Were you actually?

UGH! Come on, jack, research your argument or at least think about it for 5 minutes before you post it so you don't look so damn silly every time you post a new thread.

In Morrowind, you CAN be everything, except you can only be part of one Great House and one vampire clan. Otherwise, as Saint_Jiub said, you can be the leader of the Fighters Guild, Mages Guild, Imperial Legion, Tribunal Temple, Imperial Cult, Morag Tong, and a Great House, in addition to being the Nerevarine.

ON TOP OF THAT, guess what? As always with your complaints, it is 100% your fault if you make a character who becomes the leader of everything and you find it unrealistic. I never do that. I have several characters, each designed to participate in one faction or major questline, and it works out really really well, it also adds a lot of dynamic options, wherein one of my characters might leave a guild half way through and join a different one instead, but still the option remains to join them all if a player wishes to do so. It's power to the player, and you're complaining.

I swear, jack, you're petitioning for hand-holding more than most people on this forum.

No - my main Nerevarine was leader of the Fighter's Guild, Imperial Legion and Redoran.

In the same way as my first Dragonborn is only Harbinger of the Companions and Champion of the Stormcloaks.

Your fault, not 'thesdas.

you forgot the imperial cult and the imperial temple - I guess by "tribunal temple" you mean the imperial temple. I imagine not many people played imperial cult quests although ironically, the higher level ones were the most challenging quests in the entire game.

I think morrowind had one over on oblvion and skyrim with shrouded mystery. You never knew what or who the nevarine was until late in the game and you uncovered a lot of lore finding out. In oblivion you come into the game knowing before you ever start it that your goal is to close oblivion gates. In skyrim you already know you are the dragon born and you are supposed to kill dragons. I think the added mystery in morrowind played a little better but it's a negligible argument as there have been so many other positive changes as the series moves forward.

While he did forget the Imperial Cult, I don't know how the "Imperial temple" is any different, and I know he didn't mean "Imperial temple" when he said Tribunal temple. The Tribunal Temple is the guild dedicated to the Tribunal. The Imperial cult is the guild dedicated to the Nine Divines. There is no "Imperial temple" guild.

wait, that would actually make the coc way better, i mean look at his/her impressive resume, champion of the nine divines and daedric prince, very impressive

As its been said the only conflicting quest lines were the houses...and i still became the leader of two of them thanks to the duke

Also i like the over the top dlc, makes my characters all impressive and what not. Actually the blood moon had you slay teh god of the hunt, and the other you killed the other 1/3 of the dunmer religion...thats pretty over the top

I 'sort of' agree with the sentiment, in that the whole guild and organization system in Oblivion was mindless 'OMG' for its own sake.

Yes, in Morrowind, you could be a member of every group (Save for the Great Houses/Vampire clans, of course) but the majority of these groups were little more than mercenary companies. The jobs you did were just contracts or minor tasks. You didn't radically change the face of Morrowind through your actions in the Fighters Guild, for instance. You didn't save Tamriel from some ancient lich bent on world domination, or pull off the greatest heist in history.

With the exception of the Morag Tong, you don't really do anything in the secondary organizations which has much impact at all. Even then, would House Telvaani really notice if their council was killed off?

Oblivion, and again in Skyrim, seems to suffer from the delusion that everything has to be tied to some epic questline. The Eye of Magnus, the Shards of Wuufwrath, a PMSing Nocturnal, etc are all, really, unnessary, and detract from the relatablity of the Dovahkiin character. The Nerevarine was the last one who had any degree of sensibility in his development. He saved the world, stopped a mad former-god, and put down the Prince of the Hunt. He didn't save the world, and the Theives guild, fighters guild, mages guild, dark brotherhood, stop the Auriels, end the Greymarch and become a Daedric prince.

Even with heroic actions, things can get over the top. Having to have huge world changing stories associated with basic guild quests also detract from expansion options. The Eye of Magnus would have been much better suited for DLC, and the Companions/Silver Hand thing offered a great potential for conflic in another DLC.

So the nerevarine was better because he did less stuff.

Oh okay, that makes sense.

I laughed my ass off at the "shrouded mystery" bit up there. I first played the game at age 11, and from the first time I heard a rumor in Seyda Neen about a prophesied hero called the Nerevarine I had that one figured out. Morrowind really is the same pig, you just can't see it through all the makeup.

Once again, Daggerfall does this the best: You could, theoretically, be head of the Fighters' Guild, Mages' Guild, Thieves' Guild, one of the Temples, one of the Knightly Orders, and the Dark Brotherhood, but good luck keeping your reputation up high enough with all of them at once to make it that far, since it naturally moves towards zero with the passage of time (not to mention it's a bit harder to be a master of all trades than in the later games).

First off - the TES games don't need "replay value", when you can play one game for years. Also, the new leveling system adds plenty of replay value - TES isn't about the game world, it's about your character. I do not "Roleplay" in the sense of "Make [censored] up and say what's happening isn't what's actually happening", though I do "read between the lines" of context in the series to derive extra depth. Having all the guilds joinable keeps options open - I can Always choose "Not" to do a quest, and it doesn't stop the development of my character's story.

I'm not even going to use Race+six to distinguish my characters (They're all female Khajiit), but my neither my Berzerker nor Warrior have need to join the DB, and while she did become Archmage of the College of Winterhold, that's because the psijiics are dikes and you're not allowed to argue with those [censored] elves, not because she's a competent mage. In fact, I highly suspect that it's a Psijiic ploy to keep the College of Winterhold weak, especially after they stole an artifact that the artifact went through great lengths to recover. [censored] elves, why can't I kill them?

Anyway - likewise, my Sword+Board character's not a mage type (Yet), though she may join the college as an associate at some point in her future. However, she's far more interested in helping the Legion reunite Skyrim, and just exploring the game.

Guilds make up less than 10% of the Quest Content of Skyrim, and Quests are less than 10% of the Skyrim experience. I don't care about the "Big Stuff" that I become famous for - I saved a Farmer from a foolish death at the hands of a giant, I've had to settle stolen-item disputes. I've stepped into dungeons of impressive architecture and depth, without even realizing what I'd stumbled upon.

I also have no intention of doing the Thieve's Guild quests this time around. In fact, Skyrim does a MUCH better job with the guilds by actually making me question the morality of an act.

In Morrowind, Habasi wants a diamond. Getting one for her won't hurt anyone - the Clothier has three, won't mind them missing, and she doesn't have any use for them beyond hiding them in a box anyway. The only point that could have any impact on the player is robbing the Ald'Ruhn Mage's guild... but that's only because they put a paranoid, trigger-happy psychopath as watchdog - And even then they don't notice or mind that he's dead and the place has been cleaned out afterward.

On the other hand, right from the get-go in the Thieves' Guild in Skyrim, you put an innocent man behind bars just because he ticked off a corrupt merchant by running an honest business. The entire town laments the strength and omnipresence of the guild, and the way your actions affect people is at least heavily implied - as opposed to "Open for Business as Usual - don't mind the lack of anything of value on the premises" in the Mage's Guild of Ald-Ruhn.

The universe is easily understandable when we are 11 years old. And not so easy when we are advlts.

The player never knows for certain if his character is truly the Nerevarine or if his character is being cynically used by one person after another for their own purposes. As a result no one, not even the player who has finished Morrowind's main quest, can be completely certain who the Nerevarine truly is or if he is able to reincarnate or if he has reincarnated. This is left intentionally mysterious, an ambiguity that in my opinion elevates Morrowind's main quest above the others in the series.

I love that ambiguity

To me the Nerevarine was a pawn of Azura who ultimately brought the downfall of Morrowind and the Dunmer - whether by killing Vivec as a player or by taking Vivec to Akavir this releases the magic holding Baar Dau in place.

Did Azura foresee this? She definitely wanted the Tribunal dealt with but her dialogue seemed to suggest she wanted peace for the Dunmer, her relentless interference in either case directed the Morrowind hero to be one of the most destructive agents in Tamriel history.

Particularly when you consider that the Nerevarine's acts directly caused the desolation of Morrowind. Without Vivec, the Ministry of Truth continued its fall, causing the erruption of Red Mountain. That incedent weakened the Dunmer enough for the Argonians to invade, the two incedents collectivly killing thousands.

Still, i tend to subscribe to the idea that the Nerevarine was the best character. Even if you could figure out that you were heavily involved in the Nerevarine prophesy, you had little real knowlege about it until you were 2/3rds of the way trough, and Azura pretty much sits you down and tells you "I'm sorry to do this to you, i know its a big burden, but... Your Jesus". Learning WHAT the Nerevarine was, and how it related to everything going on in the world was part of the adventure, even if the gameplay was only one step above broken.

In Oblivion and Skyrim, you're pretty much handed all the answers up front. Skyrim's not AS bad, since alot of the nuances remain foggy till you talk to Paarthunax, but it's still not as convoluted or mysterious.

The Champion and the Dragonborn were only all of those things if you made him all of those things.

Since I know how to actually roleplay, my Dragonborn and my Champion weren't all of those things, thus your argument fails.

My CoC didn't do EVERYTHING, why did yours? Lack of sense control or unable to make separate characters?

My characters never do everything, because I like to play characters with a personality.

Actually my Dragonborn might end up doing everything because the writing in Skyrim is such that if you want to do any quests at all you have to basically take on whatever alignment the writers just happened to have in mind, typically somewhere between chaotic neutral and neutral evil. There is really no faction in all of Skyrim that concerns itself with being genuinely likable or good.

Hurry for blind Morrowind bias...

Regardless of how you personally played, HISTORY remembers him/her doing everything.

No, history makes passing mention of Martin having a Champion that helped him stop the Oblivion Crisis and that's it. There is nothing that says it was all the same person. It is not canon that the protagonist of any one game did everything possible in that game, nor is it canon that the protagonist did only one of those things. It's intentionally left open.

Semantics. The circumstantial evidence is overwhelming, but i freely accept that some people prefer a single indisputeable point rather than mountians of in interpretive data.

What circumstantial evidence? I've never heard any argument that leads me to believe that canonically, it is considered that a single player-character did everything possible in any one game.