Spellmaking had one big problem: It didn't had much variety. Sure, you could mix effects but they always took form of a touch, a ball, or an explosion. For example with fire you could do a fire touch, fire ball and a bigger fireball. What we're missing here are the more interesting elements like, how about a fire wall, a fire beam, a fire field, a flamethrower, a fire rain or even a meteor strike from the air?

Spellmaking had one big problem: It didn't had much variety. Sure, you could mix effects but they always took form of a touch, a ball, or an explosion. For example with fire you could do a fire touch, fire ball and a bigger fireball. What we're missing here are the more interesting elements like, how about a fire wall, a fire beam, a fire field, a flamethrower, a fire rain or even a meteor strike from the air?

So? Presuming that to be the case, they could simply redo it. Are we to expect them to eliminate everything that might need to be redone?

it was a better idea if they bring back the enchantment skill (which is something many fans have wanted, no?). So with alchemy in stealth and smithing in combat, it all evens out.

If they dislike spell making for feeling "spreadsheety", then they would have disliked enchantment for the SAME reason, considering it was literally spell making, but with an item as the outcome rather than a spell.

See, there's the deal. I don't understand how enchantment could make a return and yet spell making doesn't. If they dislike spell making for feeling "spreadsheety", then they would have disliked enchantment for the SAME reason, considering it was literally spell making, but with an item as the outcome rather than a spell. The effects, sliders, and everything else were the same. And if they DID find a way to not make it need slider and all that anymore, and it just deals with spell effects, then, pray tell, why could they not do the same with spell making?

Sorry - this might be a minor point, but that's simply wrong. Go into Oblivion right now. Make three spells - on-target, area-of-effect shock, fire and frost. Go out and cast them, then come back and tell us again that they're all "identical" and that "the only difference was the precise effect it had on the enemies."

In point of fact, an on-target, area-of-effect fire spell travels in a ball that explodes out to the area-of-effect when it comes in contact with a target. An on-target, area-of-effect shock spell travels in a bolt that hits any target within the area of effect, then jumps from that target to any other target within range and continues to jump from target to target, even turning corners if there's a target within range. And an on-target, area-of-effect frost spell travels in a cylinder the size of the area of effect and hits everything within that cylinder, regardless of range. Those are obviously different effects. And the effects can be combined with whichever one is the most magicka expensive determining the animation used and thus the way the spell works, so, for instance, you can cast a combined frost and shock spell that travels in the cylinder of a frost spell, or a combined fire and shock spell that travels as a bolt and jumps from target to target, or what-have-you.



This. So much this. I have no idea why anyone trusts the company that gave us Finger of the Mountain to put together practical and useful spells. In every game yet, spellmaking was not only an option but pretty much a requirement for any fairly serious mage, just because Beth's premade spells svck so badly.



So? Presuming that to be the case, they could simply redo it. Are we to expect them to eliminate everything that might need to be redone?


What "general feeling?" I've never heard this "general feeling" expressed before.


What is this? A negotiation? We're supposed to be pleased that Beth removes something so long as they give us something else "in its place?" What are we? Beggars holding out grubby palms, willing to settle for whatever Beth decides to grant us?


I stand by my earlier statement - presuming that spellmaking is indeed to be removed, it's simply in order to save time and money - in order to have one less thing that the devs have to concern themselves with. Instead of going to all the trouble of designing a system whereby we could make custom spells, they can just list a bunch of premade ones and cue up the prerecorded effects that go with them as necessary. This isn't the sort of decision that's made by game devs - it's the sort of decision that's made by some committee after a power point presentation from a team of accountants. All this stuff about mystery and making magic feel like some arcane power and eliminating this purported "spread-sheety" feeling (a complaint that I've NEVER heard anyone in the community make (because obviously this forum is all of the community...)) is just PR fluff to try to divert attention from the fact that, once again, Beth is cutting corners and eliminating gameplay options. That's probably why they're giving us woodcutting, smithing, crafting... also a way better combat system... a sprint ability... dragon shouts... a "class system" that actually evolves with what you use... yeah they're cutting options, yeah...

And the effects can be combined with whichever one is the most magicka expensive determining the animation used and thus the way the spell works, so, for instance, you can cast a combined frost and shock spell that travels in the cylinder of a frost spell, or a combined fire and shock spell that travels as a bolt and jumps from target to target, or what-have-you.

I stand by my earlier statement - presuming that spellmaking is indeed to be removed, it's simply in order to save time and money - in order to have one less thing that the devs have to concern themselves with. Instead of going to all the trouble of designing a system whereby we could make custom spells, they can just list a bunch of premade ones and cue up the prerecorded effects that go with them as necessary. This isn't the sort of decision that's made by game devs - it's the sort of decision that's made by some committee after a power point presentation from a team of accountants. All this stuff about mystery and making magic feel like some arcane power and eliminating this purported "spread-sheety" feeling (a complaint that I've NEVER heard anyone in the community make) is just PR fluff to try to divert attention from the fact that, once again, Beth is cutting corners and eliminating gameplay options.

If Bethesda removes spellmaking, they incur a lot more work on their part, IF they wish to have magic viability stay the same as it would be with spellmaking.

Let me explain: spellmaking let magic focused characters get spells that they couldn't overwise, because there weren't an overabundance of spell trainers, nor their individual wares.

If there is no spellmaking, bethesda will need to compensate by adding a vastly more encompassing group of premade spells to the game, and likely will need 2-3 times the amount they had in oblivion.

In my personal experience, spellmaking didn't "take the magic out of magic"...it was a nice way for a high level mage to actually make his own spells, like you know, an actual mage would. If the grandmaster of the mages guild can't even make his own signature spells, is he really representing his title? I think Not.

Correctly, Oblivion had loads of premade spells, lots of them were pretty useless and it was huge holes that would make Illusion pretty worthless.
It was no high level mind control spells making Illusion useless as an offensive skill at level 18. No chameleon 100% spell, yes I agree that chameleon 100% was overpowered but you could easy make it with potions or enchant but max effect in bought spells was 50%
Frenzy also required a pretty large area effect to be useful, as the unaffected npc tend to attack you, duration was less important as you could always cast it again.
Destruction and restoration was less hit as any healing or damage spell would work even if a custom spell would work better.
However console player should not only pray but also perform the pilgrimage in hope that no such holes are left in Skyrim if we don’t get a spellmaker.

And I find that EPICALLY lame. New spells should look nothing like old spells.




Question: if the ONLY reason it is removed is to save time and money, why not just have an identical magic system as before?



REALITY: the reason it is being removed is because too much time and energy has gone into changing the magic system.

This is not a simple discontinuation of a feature. It is a sacrifice of an old feature for a new one.


A little honesty in your criticisms would increase your credibility quite a lot.


Oh, and I hated the "spread-sheety" feeling of magic in Oblivion and Morrowind. In fact, magic was more or less lame to me, in that I never felt like I was some great wielder of Supernatural power. I would be totally happy with the sacrifice IF they got the magic right: if they made me feel like freaking Gandalf casting spells, then I would be a happy camper without create a spell. IF they don't get it right, then I will be as pissed off as you. But unlike you my final conclusion will require testing the game before I am utterly convinced one way or another.

So, basically mages will experience Call of Duty: Tamriel?
"Here you go mage, you can use your fire gun, frost gun, or lightning gun, and here are your grenades."

Magic is supposed to be "spreadsheety" because it is the Elder Scrolls version of science. It is a process of experimentation, theorycrafting, and meticulous recording of findings. If I wanted to play a mage who had all of his spells made by the developer, I would play WoW (and would have the advantage of being seriously overpowered in PvP).

Because in spellmaking you have such a big variety of spells: How about a fireball? A bigger fireball? Oooh, this fireball also shoots ice. This one even paralyse you...