I'm unsure if this should go into the Fallout Series forum or the Lore forum, but seeing as what I'm asking requires equal parts speculation and historical understanding, and not simply what's "cool."

So, I was wondering what you Fallout Historians thought the next big enemy will be in the Fallout-verse? The Enclave is largely dead (save in the Chicago-land area, as far as we know), the Master is gone, Super Mutants are declining with a finite population, and Caesar's Legion is about as viable as it is accurately Roman (or well implemented). So, what's the next big threat for our Lone Wanderers, Chosen Ones, and Vault Dwellers?

The Commonwealth

Caesar's Legion

Midwestern Brotherhood under Barnaky.

If it takes place in or near the Commonwealth then:
Ronto.
Outcasts.
Talon Company.
Lyons Brotherhood.
Ashur's Empire.
Railroad.
Institute.
Radscorpions.

I was thinking my lone wanderer was probably the singularly biggest threat to the survival of anything.

OK cl is a threat to no one but them selves. They better go slaughter a few thousand more tribes.


A commonwealth android army would be sweet, but if they go down with any less then 4 clips of ar rounds they might as well not waste my time.

I hope its a dark bos from fo tactics in fo4



If not it has to be a large group of well equiped soilders. Men that sit around and start sniping you from the top of a mountain.

Men that play to win. not "cool" cl, but a real threat.

Give me some [censored] soilders.........

People that have guns of all sorts. People that eat sleep and breath.......... soilders.

People that have heard lines like "Tonight you pukes will sleep with your rifles" or "If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training you will be killers praying for war." Guys that seem like this isn t their first day.

I want a group that has watched holo tapes of Full Metal Jacket.

I want them to understand that "Your rifle is only a tool, it is a hard heart that kills. If your killing instincts are not pure, you will hesitate. Then you will become dead Marines, and Marines are not allowed to die with out permission."

Now with a simple holo tape of Full Metal Jacket, Gunnery Sgt. Hartman will teach them.

Then maybe we ll have someone out there worthy of combat.

Ceaser instead of reading a bad book on the Roman Legions, He should have watched Full Metal Jacket. Then the mw would have been in trouble.

Instead he s got vet Legionaires that say "I didn t think an NCR ranger could be killed in single combat."

Gunnery Sgt. Hartman wouldn t let them think like that. Even from a holo tape.

Rook, with a new engine Legion could finally be portrayed as they were meant to be portrayed.
Maybe they can do stealth kill animations on the player?
Maybe they can jump over obstacles in the way and rush towards you like raging bulls?
Maybe their weapons give bleed effects (like poison with -hp/#s)?
And mainly, maybe their numbers will be greater than before?
And run faster!

Legion in New Vegas was.... Not very satisfactory, but with the new engine they could be an awesome enemy despite not using high tech stuff.

If you want soldiers how about Chinese Remnants who still believe in fighting the Great War ( Resource Wars ) kind of like these japanese WWII fighters stationed on an island who surrendered in 1971

would be cool but i think the chance of that passed with the amount of time gone by, a group of soldiers would be dead well over 200 years later unless their ghouls and even then their would probably only be a handful not even

Republic of Dave.

Short of the inclusion of Jedis, I cannot fathom how a melee dependent army could ever REALLY compete with an equivalent force weilding firearms... If such were reasonable to expect then the Native Americans, the Aztecs and Feudal Japanese would rule the world today.

Mot Effective weapons against the Natives of the Americas was European diseases, that and they never discovered steel. Japanese did adopte firearms and it is of note that they were never defeated until WW2.

Caesar's Legion does use firearms. Its just melee fighting does have its usefulness. Even the NCR Rangers see the use in unarmed fighting. Gun Battles can end up being all out melee fights. Guns do run out of ammo. Enemies can over run you.

You haven't convinced me that history is wrong. Sorry.

Guess you need to learn your history then. :thumbsup:

If unarmed and melee fighting was so useless and guns so awesome then why does America and other nations around the world train their Elite units in Martial arts? America has been doing it since WW2. Go ask a USA marine and they will tell you they are they are taught how to kill very effectively with their hands and knives. Why? Because guns can run out of ammo. Guns can be damaged or jam. An Enemy can get the drop on you.

When fighting a war you can't just yell "Hey I am out of Ammo guys, don't shoot me I am going to get some more!"

Find me a modern army that trains their soldier primarily in hand to hand combat and uses firearms as a backup. I'm not denying that melee is effective, but in any universe that isn't a video game, soldiers use guns first and THEN fall back to hand to hand. The only armies that do it the other way around are long dead.... Like the canon ending for NV will do to the Legion.

China trains all their troops in hand to hand.

You have to think about the Legion for a second. They are doing everything they can to save ammo. War of attrition. Why us a bullet when you can kill with knives? NCR use guns as their main weapon. Which means they have to spend time, man power and treasure turning out ammo for the war. Which means supply lines have to be succured. NCR's dependence on firepower is not a good thing. Legion just has to cut those supply lines. Which they have been doing in New Vegas, very effectively. NCR outposts run out of Ammo and the Legion just walks right in.

Now the Legion does not have to worry about supply lines as much. They are the weapon. Which means they can freely move any place they want as long as there is food and water. NCR can't cut their lines to the same effectiveness as the legion can cut theirs.

Hows that gonna work?

Maybe due to suprise, hit and run raids the legion might succeed with these, in full on combat, modern automatic firearms will decimate, a pure melee army, the machine gun changed the battlefield, well implaced machine guns will decimate basically unarmoured troops, snipers will take out commanders at range, and especially since they are clearly visible by their uniforms, roman tactics were brilliant against the technology of the day, but no shield wall, flight of pilums, leather armour, will ever out do a single round from a single, semi or fully automatic ballistic weapon.

Human waves were greatly successful in north korea, but they had artillery and guns in support not just waves of melee troops, yes smallpox killed many of the American indians, but if they had mobilised the army like they did in the civil war they would have decimated the indians, japanese did have firearms, original ones were so, so but basically it wasnt that they werent defeated, it was basically because they didnt really want to, japan really had nothing much to offer, easier to just try for a diplomatic solution than to waste resources, on a country that is going to give nothing in return other than another pin on your conquest map. You could look at the zulu wars, india, fighting in the Khyber pass, the war in sth africa, the last real use of cavalry on the battlefeild, the effect of the gun on armoured knights.

Also how would they handle casualties, pulling masses of wounded from the battlefield, they have no real battlefield hospitals to treat gunshot wounds, nor treat infection, riflemen could pick at groups, and they have no way of returning fire, a five man team with anti material rifles could sit at distance and just pick them off at leisure, they could follow them wearing them down, no matter where they stopped they would take a toll on numbers, small groups of ncr rangers could create large amounts of casualties before they even got into full contact, plus using the ground to your advantage, trenches and any obstacles that slow down, or break up, or funnel troops into kill zones again give the gun a massive advantage.

This!

Also, maybe they could have heavy troopers with bulletproof shields, vests and helmets (painted to look roman of course). :rolleyes: That would be something, see a wall of them advance at you in walking speed, bullets doing nothing against them (bet explosives still do though), and behind them there's the rest of the army, fast melee soldiers that will rush forward from cower, once their shielding brothers get close enough to their enemies, and engage them in melee, something that they are extremely vicious in.

You are going to so love fallout tactics (if you havent played it already).

Back on topic. The MWBOS is a sleeping giant that has been waiting for ages to see its resolution. Will they help their lost hills bunker companions? Will they declare them unworthy and just leave them, and what will happen when they see how "Soft" Lyons is in DC?

I hope for this so bad it hurts. Barnaky as Calculator + robot army would make a grand foe.

Easy, his army is getting bigger, now they have more people, now they need more territory, especially farming towns and water purifiers.

Will the next enemy be new? Human enemies have been right-wing extremists, fascists, bureaucrats & anarchists. Sci-Fi menaces have been mutants, aliens & artificial intelligences. I'm sure I missed a few, there.

It might be interesting for the next game to have no clear-cut villains. New Vegas edged up to this but the Legion was still clearly cast as the enemy. What if the next game wasn't a war of species or ideology but simply one for territory and resources? Two or more factions that must enter conflict or become extinct. The player's choices could include taking a side, finding another option, etc.

Plus, of course, lots of monsters to shoot.

Dude Caesars Legion is not a threat to themselves, there more organized than the NCR. The NCR is twice there size and they still can't get rid of the Legion. Caesars Legion is a threat to nearly every faction in the Fallout Universe. The only ones who have a chance of beating them are the MWBOS, the NCR (Though they are having troubles taking them out when there literatly on the other side of a river) and the Commonwealth Faction(s) depending on the tech they have.

EDIT: As for who the next enemy will be I hope its like New Vegas where there are multiple factions and you decide who you side with and who's your enemy. If thats the face for Fallout 4 then I want the factions to be: Talon Company, Commonwealth Faction(s), a large and organized Raider group and a new faction.

Combat armour, assault rifles, and sniper rifles is all I need. Nothing high tech about that. cl is done for. No [censored] archers with flaming arrows. Come on man. Get thosd scrubs out of fo. Or they need to let me remake them. Born again hard. I could have done them better on this engine.

Talon Company was more hard ass than cl. They all at least carried ranged weapons.