That 'empty filler' is actually what I was imagining lol. Simply having the option to traverse it, and perhaps have a few things to discover, means that people would be able to appreciate the scale and survival aspect better imo. Plus, people couldn't complain that there was nothing to explore.

See thats what I was always saying, the wastes would be procedurely generated, with perhaps Random encounter generated such as ruined buldings with a few raiders with a little loot, so the peolpe that want to walk can (but it would still take the same time so if the town your headed to is a week away your goign to have to walk that whole week.) The fast travel system would be in the same manner as the originals. Special randoms, and towns would have varying sized nodes that not only covered the town proper but soem surrounding landscape so you could still ahve the "exploration" thing goign you did in the DLC sized maps.

I like the sandbox style, but if we want to cover a large area, i would say handle distant areas like DLC is handled.
It would be great if we still had decent sized maps, but didnt have to wait on loading screens to do simple things like go into different buildings within a settlement.

Personally I'd rather have the game like Skyrim was implemented (fast travel + caravan system). However, I'd like fast travel to be an optional thing that could be toggled on and off. It has a caravan system like Morrowind did (you pay some cash to get taken to a settlement, major or minor), but if you're the type of person who can't play eight hours a day, then you can just fast travel to any destination you've discovered.

I don't even understand why some people hate fast travel. Either use it or don't. But you do have to understand that MOST gamers are individuals who have jobs and aren't going to get much free time. For the bit that they do, they're spending it gaming for a couple of hours before going to bed, hanging out with their spouse/friends, etc.

I also do not want a node system. Either we'll have to implement it back into an isometric RPG like Fallout 1/2 (which isn't going to happen), or it'll have to be in Fallout 3/NV's style, except when you get to the edge of an area, you'll be zipped to another new area. While Fallout 3/NV was broken into cells, going into another cell is like taking a step through a doorway, not like stepping through a portal. Sure, seeing the scenery loading while traveling around can be immersion breaking, a node system would be even more immersion breaking if it were implemented like the second example I made.

I like the node idea for towns/villages/cities but for the Wasteland and Fast Traveling?

Uh...no please.

I want the storytelling and mechanics (ect.) to be like the Originals but I also love Bethesda's exploration aspect to the game. I really want a balance of the two. If there has to be nodes for some parts of the Wasteland then it should be like the DLC's; you go through a cave, boat, random-teleportation-thingy, and BAM, you're in a whole new map. In an isometric world it is understandable but in a First-person perspective it would be too....what's the word...too "cumbersome" (that's the polite word for it). In FO1 and FO2, when you stop in the Wasteland it would be the same map with the same generic encounters (minus random encounters). Oh...same mountain...oh lookie here...same deserted city...been there, done that. The towns is where the game really takes place which I didn't mind due to how the game was made. However, when the game suddenly does a complete 360 and an isometric perspective turns into a first-person perspective then the things that could have been ignored in the Originals would become too annoying.

I just want fast traveling to be like viewing a 3D map (like Skyrim) where you can see your PC traveling and then occasionally stops when he/she encounters something just like in the originals. That's it. Simple. No random generated Wasteland nodes. I like the exploration part. If people don't like it then they can just Fast Travel all the time when they discover a town (place) and if their PC stops then just click on the map marker again. Don't explore the Wasteland, just stay around "civilization" then.

What I would like is to have the game work essentially like it already does in terms of using the map in FO3 to travel long distance. One change though, that of having offset spawn points for the PC.
These would be used to 'fade in' from map travel. Imagine the PC chooses a town on the Pip, and the game pulls back into TPP (like 90' back), and you see the PC running off in the direction the town... In the interim, the map progress is shown (much like how the rest of the series does it). Upon arrival the camera is still TPP and the PC is jogging (or limping) towards the entrance to the town ~where upon the player resumes control; (The PC was moving away from the offset spawn point some ways back from the entrance to the town).
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbigblL3wbU.

The second part of what I'd like to see, is towns and settlements a long way apart, to where travel like the aforementioned above is the practical preference of most players ~but.... the neat part [IMO] could be to allow the PC to actually walk the whole way in real time if they really wanted to. Arcanum worked this way, as I understand it, the player could in fact walk the PC from the East to West coast; (and it supposedly would take two days in RL to do it).

If they designed a streaming wasteland that was a jumble of varried geometry (tiles) that randomly loaded in as you walked, and occasionally loaded in an area with stuff to investigate ~like an old steel mill, a Gas station, or bombed out town for instance These areas would not usually be much more than landscaping, but some could be, and others could be full blown encounters with NPCs ~stuff you'd likely miss if you were just using Map Travel to fade out and back in at your destination. This same system could also work to bring about random encounters again... If one is detirmined by the game to occur, the PC fades into an ambush (or benign encounter; somewhere between point A and Point B, instead of where they were headed to; and from there (after the battle or talking), the PC could Map travel again, or walk the rest of the way.

I hate listening to all these great ideas, knowing none of them will ever be used by Bethesda.
Were gunna get a crappy Fallout..... I can feel it, and Skyrim did anything but restore hope.

BTW Gizmo, I think the idea of being able to sort of kick back and simply watch your PC traverse the wastes would be a neat little feature. Actually I couldn't imagine it being too hard at all for them to add that in(unless their adding dragons, then it's ok if they "forget" to add silly little things like dialogs and interesting quests)

Adding dragons would simply confirm that the Fallout series has officially fallen into the pit of despair that is the TES series.

Ahh, I'm afraid it already has leaned toward the TES playstyle. Ofcourse NV started a "push" back to the core Fallout style, were all just going to have to wait and see if F4 follows NV playstyle, or simply fall in line with Skyrim.

I'm biting my nails in anxiety thinking that Fallout very well might turn into my greatest fear, skyrim with guns.
It almost seems with the success of skyrim bringing in soooo many new players, Fallout might go the sane route of "dumbing down" the series to attract that same group of new comers, I think more people would go for it simply because it's not fantasy based and more suited for someone who generally plays FPS games.

All we can do is voice our opinion to BGS, hopefully they side w/ the fans rather than selling more to a broader audience(segregation of gamers is a good thing, if we keep mixing RPGs with a more shooterish style gameplay, soon there will be just one type of game... Don't let this happen)

I'm gunna be furious If they pull a Sky-rim job on Fallout, you should be too.

My perdiction, is we're goign to see that same thing we saw with FO3 happen. they are pretty much only going to add in a gimped SPECIAL (hopefully) that has about as much affect as it did in FO3. Otherwise it's goign to use the same mechanics as Skyrim. So yeah skyrim-job as you put it. Is what I see for FO4 right now.

I wouldn't mind a node system as long as:

A. the initial areas that are the arrival and departing areas and meat of the game are large and interesting in their own right. i don't want ot have to come to a node every 5 minutes.

B. The area between can be randomly generated but make each way you go a little specfic and different.

Example: The road between New Mexico and Arizona is full of bandito style raiders and maneating mutant alpacas, the terrain is a randomized desert and arrid lands. While the road through Jersey to New New York would be full of trogs and massive raider bands through urban polluted waterways or whatnot.

C. also plenty of random events to keep it interesting. Also see random trade caravans on the way who you can trade with.

D. Motorcycles, cars, and mutated mount of some sort if possible

I like how every part of the Capital Wasteland was different. In FONV it wasn't as impressive. I like exploring but if there was a node map then instead of having "random generated land" how about certain settlements in between the "important" settlements or locations (as well as random encounters). That way you can explore the surrounding areas the size of FO3 (or FONV) in that "node" and then continue on. I want each area to be unique but it all sounds too complicated. Look at Skyrim and all of its glitches. It will be a nightmare.

I like the exploration aspect of the Fallout series now. I just hope there will be a compromise.

It definitely can be done - Back in Arena this was used as creating a large playable area the size of Tamriel was completely unfeasible, so they generated it all on the fly randomly.

Node maps can be done in modern games. Look at Dragon Age.

The problem is, Bethesda is in the business of open-world RPGs. So unless Fallout gets bought by someone else, I just don't see it happening.

I don't really understand it when people say "open world." Fallout and Fallout 2 don't restrict where you go in the world. You can go anywhere you want once you leave the starting loction. Its not like Tactics were you have to go from A to B then C then D then E and so on.

Map node would be great to bring back, and it should be brought back.

I've got some questions, but I think I'm getting what you guys are saying.

1. If we leave, say, the main city, we will be taken to a map like in Fallout 1 and 2, then choose which nodes to go to?
2. If a map does open, can I skip it and just walk from node to node?
3. If a map doesn't open, every time I go over a node, will it say "loading area" like Far Cry 2 or something?
4. If a map doesn't open, will I still be able to see buildings and such on the next node, but have to go across nodes to get into them?

I think it depends on who's Idea your working off of.

In my version:

1: Each city node would be like the DLC's you have now. or smaller depending on how big the settlement is.

2: Fast travel between nodes is like in the originals. Inside of nodes is like we have now.

3: In my version of what it's like if you choose to walk the wastes instead of using fast travel you'll get a precdurely generated wasteland that takes into account land your moving over ETC to generate the landscape. You'll get dumped into this same setting when you hit random encounters via the Fast travel map.

4: When walking the wastes you'll still beable to see city noded or places of interest on the horrizon, and when you get close enough you'll enter the "city node" and via loading screen (or maybe not depending on how load is handled but if your goign by present method loading screen.) and you'll be at the edge of the map in an appropriate location. (corner, middle whatever of the edge.)

Oh yeah and special randoms liek you see in the originals, will ahve there own unique maps as well.

So, basically, this would happen.

I would leave a city, and head to the mountains. I get to a mountain pass, and a menu comes up on my screen. Should I select a node, I would start traveling there, like in the originals, with a chance of running into a random encounter. However, if I choose to close it and walk to the area I want to go, I'll get a stretch of empty land with the occasional shack, until I reach my destination.

Right? I would actually like that, it seems pretty cool and it would allow for a much bigger map.

Pretty much, However keep in mind that travel distances are in effect, so if it takes you a week to move between point A and B if you choose to walk it, it will take you a week of game time to walk it. Also note that in my Version, as a bonus for those that do choose that long walk, Randomly generated little encounters and treasures can be found above and beyond the normal random encounters. Such as little caches of lost supplies forgotten by there previous owners. Or perhaps Additional wandering traders/travelers that trade with you and give you information about a randomly generated "treasure cache" that would pop up on your map so you can go there and do a little dungeon crawl for loot.

That seems great, I definitely want this in Fallout 4. Although Bethesda has never done a first-person node map before, and knowing them, they don't like to do anything new (unfortunately) but hopefully they will change with Fallout 4.

We had a a long and pretty thorough discussion about the implementation of nodes and open terrain (the Arcanum way) in the new way of gameplay with General Masters during the developement of New Vegas. And it sounded like a pretty workable system... I just wish I could remeber all the little quirks there was.

In basics, it was much like Andaius' idea there (good idea btw), but there was more to it.

We have almost exactly the same version ; and we may have both hammered out the details years ago in a different thread.

Yep!

and Yep!

what i miss from fallout 1 and 2 is the random locations you run in to, based on your luck skill

"Open world" means the world is well, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_world_game. As in, one big map where you can go anywhere you can see. See Metroid, Grand Theft Auto, Red Dead Redemption, Batman: Arkham City etc.

Fallout 1 and 2 are comprised of lots of little maps connected to a bigger world map. You can't go anywhere except those little maps, and the world map acts like a fancy loading screen. Eg. most Japanese RPGs from the 90s, Dragon Age, Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword etc.