http://michaelkirkbride.tumblr.com/post/128602974278/excerpt-from-a-tesv-skyrim-design-document-with


I'm not sure if this was discussed already, but I remember a few years ago when I was more active on the forums there were debates around who the ancient Nordic totems found within the ruins and barrows represented, and how exactly the religion worked.


Dead Gods, these deities have no temples as they reside in Sovngarde. They fought and died to bring the new cycle.

Fox - Shor

Bear - Tsun


Hearth Gods, they watch over the current cycle. These deities have temples dedicated to them, and even though they are the only God's specifically represented in Skyrim temples, they probably should have had more of a prominent influence. Kyne is the most venerated deity in Skyrim. Their temples are meant to be homes/sanctuaries and less like formalized cathedrals of the Divines.

Hawk - Kyne

Wolf - Mara

Moth - Dibella


Testing Gods, these gods threaten the hearth.

Snake - Orkey

??? - Herma Mora


Twilight Gods: These deities don't need temples because it's over or almost over when they show up. The Nord's still venerate them. (We see this contradicted in Windhelm). Nord's believe Alduin shows up after the Dragonborn God appears. Talos is the only one who completely survives the next cycle.


Dragon - Alduin

Dragonborn - Talos


*Nords believe Talos aided Martin, not Alduin/Akatosh.

While I do very much love Skyrim (and all of the games in the series), Skyrim dropped the ball on religion. Would've been really cool to see this be more at the forefront, but sadly we only get bare traces and mentions of the Nord Totemic beliefs in the game.

A very interesting, related text is http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Alduin/Akatosh_Dichotomy. It is interesting for several reasons. For one, it is written by a priest of Akatosh, but one who strives to be unbiased in the text (at least, that is the impression I get). But it also brings up an interesting question that has somewhat confused me. Most of the Nords--as the writer of the text, Alexandre Simon, points out--distinguish between Alduin and Akatosh. So where does that leave Akatosh in Nordic religion, at least for the Totemic ways? Also, since most Nords believe in that distinction, why wouldn't more of them be willing to believe Akatosh--and not Talos--aided Martin?

I think it's just inconsistent. The Nord's weren't supposed to acknowledge Akatosh at all. Alduin was the dragon god in the worldview of the Nords. We could just chalk it down to the imperialization of Skyrim and it's people in the 4th era that Nords even acknowledge the existence of Akatosh. Does open the question up further as to how a Dragonborn comes to be, seeing as the Nord's venerated the concept without acknowledging Akatosh as a thing.

That does beg the question of why there is widespread acknowledgement of Akatosh. I think it is part of what Froki Whetted-Blade, the hermit that you speak to for the Kyne's Sacred Trials quest, laments. The Nords have largely abandoned the old ways and have worshiped the Imperial pantheon for the most part. I'm sure he isn't too fond of the worship of Akatosh either. (This would have been a prime opportunity to explore the dichotomy between the Nords who have clung to the old ways and those who have taken to the Imperial pantheon. Oh, the possibilities if we had greater disagreement between those two sides portrayed in the game. IMO, there would have been more potential that way instead of just having everybody cling to the Totemic beliefs or having everybody cling to the Imperial Divines.)

I think the matter of how the Dragonborn comes to be is metaphysical knowledge taken for granted by us. IIRC, nobody really remarks that you have been blessed by Akatosh with the soul of a dragon, so I don't think most of the population of Skyrim even really thinks about it or would understand it even if they heard it. They just think about the "Hey, you're that person who is supposed to save us!" part.

EDIT: by the way, your avatar makes me sad, haha. Hockey season didn't go so well for me last season.

Except even in Skyrim, Akatosh (aside from the Greybeards) barely, if ever, comes up. I mean, religion isn't touched on, but if we try and take what is talked about, Aka is more or less nonexistent. If anything, this is actually more consistent with what link in OP's post roles with.

Aside from Froki's quest, which I think is more or less a quick throwaway to try and handwave why the Nordic pantheon isn't touched on. Hell, even Oblivion, which dropped the ball in a lot of courts managed to show the friction between the Imperials attempts to "civilize" the Nord's with the Imperials native faith, and outright stating just how completely stubborn the Nord's are in regard to this issue. Frankly, I prefer to take Skyrim's complete silence on the issue, ignore Froki, and just pretend the Nord's keep their faith to themselves. Sitting in temples is a waste of time and all that good stuff.

Biggest crime is that the Nord's venerating the female divines above all the others (sans Ysmir), and being the only culture to really do was depicted, but didn't get any real attention to what they mean in the context of Nordic culture. Damn shame that.

I prefer to think Alduin becomes the Akatosh of the new kalpa, at the end of these world-turnings. Every cycle becomes a war between the Dragon tyrant of this world and the Dragon tyrant of the next, with a new Alduin born at the beginning of each cycle.

Now that is interesting. Raises the question of what happens to Alduin after he eats the World. Does Alduin transcend kalpas, and if not, where does he go?

This is LiquidHurlant's idea, at TIL. You'd have to ask him.


I assume the new Alduin takes the old one's place, as the old Alduin has become Akatosh. The refuse goes to Herma Mora.

I think the absences are most consistent points about the Nords' religion. They recognise Akatosh, but the only evidence that they worship him is the presence of his shrines. And not all shrines in Skyrim were built by Nords.

The presence of the temples they do have is both consistent and contradictory. They are dedicated to the Hearth Goddesses and Talos, both of whom are more prominent to the Nords. I can imagine an equivalent to Froki being a witch or society matron (possibly not quite as we know either of them) who balks at the thought that there was any point in building a temple to Mara or Dibella respectively. It seems to be something that just caught on, like marriage depending on how much you read into what Honmund and Alga had to say about the institution (essentially that it's a pointless southern custom).

Another thing I'd like to have seen are stories about Herma-Mora. Maybe the other gods too, but I think that Hermaeus Mora could have been hyped a bit by being portrayed as a cunning, sinister old man/monster type in the woods (and of the woods, rather than some alien cosmic horror [even the latter is more apt for what he really is]) exploiting heroes. Like a sort of male Baba Yaga.