Here Fallout 4 is better than Skyrim in that most quests are not auto accept on contact with questgiver.

In some quest you also have the option to play a bit hardball and demand more payment.
But yes the 4 options only is an strong limiter for dialogues where you should have more options but the 4 is used up by a quest.

Yes, having radiant quests time out and be fail-able is an nice return to an Daggerfall feature. All quest outside main quest was random and on an timer.

Its a good RPG and an awful one at the same time. You completely have to blowoff the urgency of the main quest to enjoy most of the game because most things simply can't be done afterwards. BGS games have this problem to some degree but the world still exists afterwards and at least with Skyrim and FO4, there were several jumping off points and more logical distractions.

Can't agree sorry.

For me, it's preatty much up to you, what to do or who to be.

In fact you can be like the dike from the start, telling your partner to fu*ck him/herself with the [censored] park and watch TV instead....

You can be like "fu*ck you!" in many quests.

You can bel ike "I don't give a [censored]! Everyones dead, huray!"

Things like the holotape from your partner: Several explanations. Ye sure, you were the loving parent 200 years ago. But dude, you were frozen, your partner was shot, your baby stolen, everyone you knew was nuked...fuc*k life! Go ahead and start beeing a dike!

Or if Cocksworth handles you over the holotape, just be like "Screw this! I'm tossing this crap in the next bush!"

Sell your wedding ring! Hell, sell the one of your dead partner as well, you're a jerk, forgot?

It's really about imagination...Sure, some desicions are not entirely bad guy stuff, but saying that the game fails in letting you roleplay is...meh...

But in the same time some say, that the Witcher 3 is far better in that aspect. Seriously? The Wicther is like "The only person on Earth you are loving is beeing hunted by a whole Army of shi*theads and you have to rescue her!" And than your like "Oh, some oldy lady needs her friing pan, let's help her, got plenty of time!"...The svcker 3 is the most overrated RPG for a looooooooong time....

I just lied through my teeth pinning my crimes on a innocent man....Then got offered the contract to kill that innocent man by a angry father that I was happy to take for the caps.

Guess that doesn't qualify as evil these days...

No no, you have to run amok among the citizens and slaughter them with a machete or something. Subtlety svcks! Sarcasm by the way. I found that the game had some of those moments, and they were quite heartbreaking and more brutal than what i can remember in some previous games i've played.

I don't have so much problems with the dialog options and my fragile personality. I prefer to shoot people so I don't have to show that I'm a bad person in dialogs. Yesterday I killed a preacher and all his innocent poor followers because they got in my way and I really liked it that he attacked me. I let a Synth being killed because I don't like Synths, especially when they have beards like this guy. I joined the Railroad just to get intimate knowledge about these underground idealists, it's easier to kill them then, isn't it? That makes me of course not a bad person, I'm adorable, at least it's my good guy playthrough.

I have some problems with the player background story, it's hard to overcome. What to do? Ok, the nuclear war gave me the sole opportunity to break free from the boring marriage. I chuckle inside every time when I hear Codsworth praise me for my love to, what was still her name? Maybe I prefer MacCready or Piper or both? I feel obliged to look for my son (is he from me?) but there is a lot of time, so many distractions. Short, a more open start with a personality you could develope more yourself would be preferable, but you can at least partly overcome.

What interferes the most with my immersion in the game is fast travel. The game is made with fast travel in mind and fast travel kills so many difficulties for surviving in a wasted land, it's a post-nuclear cakewalk even on Survival.

The critical flaw of Fallout 4 is that it has a rabid fan base of the original games Fo1 and Fo2.

The next flaw is that due to legal reason's involving the transaction settlement of the IP, another developer got rights to produce Fallout New Vegas.

-This causes confusion for expectations

The next flaw is that players seem to think that just because company A that produces product B made something work a certain way that must mean that company Z must also incorporate said features.

Also 2015 entitlement syndrome.

I think you're misinformed here. Bethesda contracted -ie: approached- Obsidian to make New Vegas as a side game. There was no legal business involved.

My X button is getting very warn from skipping all the diolog lol.

I am a bonafide Bethesda really devoted fan and have no issue admitting it. Fallout 3 has been my favourite entertainment product from the moment I first left the Vault right up until I passed 20 hours on Fallout 4 and really started to get to grips with it but...... the dialogue wheel is a terrible decision. It really does take a massively enjoyable part of Fallout and turns it into a inconsequential annoyance.

Everything else is awesome. Except the game breaking bugs which mean I can't progress the story or 2 of the 4 factions, that's not so awesome but still not enough of an issue to make me stop playing.

On a side note, I've never purchased Just Cause 3 so I'm off to their forums to tell them all why!

What are you guys even talking about? I'm on my second playthrough and my character is a cold-hearted [censored]. She has been so rude and cynnical at times that I cringe. And it's awesome, because I get to hear her say this stuff, whereas before she would have been silent.

Like... What are the people who complain so much even comparing the fo4 dialogue to? Certainly not a beth game, because while I enjoy their games immensely, they have never been very... um... well...

Look, their dialogue options have either been almost nonexistent or they've svcked. BGS isn't CDPR or Bioware or whatever. And that's fine. I play those games because I want more emphasis on story (well.... maybe excluding Inquisition... But I won't get into that). If I want a rich world and open-ended exploration, I play a Bethesda rpg.

Some don't like it. That's fine. But seriously, I wasn't expecting some revolutionary change in their dialogue. Fo3 tried and was mildly successful, but it was still meh. NV did a little better but that's not saying much either.

MY biggest gripe is that skill/SPECIAL checks are completely gone. If I want extra dialogue options, I have to invest heavily in Charisma, or throw on a sparkly red dress that my character wouldn't be caught dead in.

I just don't like that what choice you pick in speech doesn't actually change anything, they say the same stupid lines no matter what option you pick, like I am in a conversation with someone who ignores what I say and says what they were going to say anyway. So basicly like talking to a self centered jurk.

I haven't played the [censored] yet, so I'm not talking from personal experience here, but I think what people are complaining about isn't the fact that you can SAY rude things. Being cynical or sarcastic isn't on the same level as doing evil things. You don't really get the freedom previous games in the series gave you. Even Fallout 3 was better in this regard.

The karma system was really cool that helped to reinforce your moral choices. Keep doing bad stuff like stealing and killing, taking the evil option in dialogue etc and mechanically you'd be rewarded with messages and titles. And in the world itself certain individuals and factions would take note of your actions and react to you, which both opened up and closed off content, relative to your karma standing. That seemingly insignificant systerm breathed a bit of life and immersion into the world. Your actions were making an impact into the world around you.

That should have been expanded on with Fallout 4. Instead it was removed, and as a compromise you were given a 'sarcastic' option instead which really doesn't cut it at all. Yes, you can roleplay an evil character, but only as much as you can roleplay Master Chief as a 4ft stripper from Glasgow.

If the mechanics of the game aren't there to support being bad and recognise your moral standing, you'll always be the perfect loving, caring, family man/woman with a white picket fence and affluent background.

Agree with you here.
Might say that Bethesda are not the best to write dialogues, the dialogues with the wheel is far harder than menus because only and always 4 options, voiced PC also makes it harder.

Using the full text patch, yes I call it an patch highlight the weaknesses far more.

Problem was that charisma was pretty broken way to often killing off groups had no karma effect neither stripping their bodies while taking their stuff gave negative karma.
It was totally broken in FO:NV as killing hostiles who was very common and nice for farming gave positive karma.

lol that guy that mentioned Diamond city blues lol you didnt tie up all your loose ends... i sandman everyone that was a part of that quest , even the dad after he paid up lol

I loved the fact that they did the pre-war intro, and if anything it was too short, but I feel like that probably wrote themselves into a corner with character background story options the minute that they did this.Perhaps there should have been multiple starting points; all pre-war, all on the same street/neighborhood, but you get to pick which backstory you wanted to roll with.

I guess they also wrote themselves into a tighter box when they decided "and you have a child that you care about so much that the entire game is written around finding that child."

*duplicate*

1) It's not that bad. "Cry"?

2) You are supposed to be playing a good guy/gal, not a a**hole. You tend to be a bit more successful by actually being a pleasant person.

I can't be sure, but, I would assume that Beth didn't really want to enable terrible behavior.

Besides, you have us on the forums if you want to act the fool.

I'm going to assume this is your first time playing a Bethesda game.

There is an expectation within the fans to be able to be the person you want to be. A thieving cheating murdering scumbag, a sainty goody two shoes or anything inbetween. This is the freedom the games have typically offered you. With Fallout 4 Bethesda is trying to change that, which kinda makes the game very un-Bethesda-like. This is why the fans are getting upset - at one time YOU were in charge of your characters destiny and YOU wrote your own story. With Fallout 4, BETHESDA is making the choices for the player.

Playing a bad guy is pretty much the realm of smaller games,

Mass Effect took 3 games to tell the story.

Fable, uh not exactly a great series, small game, and the 3rd amounted to being a platform to sell players stuff for IRL money.

KOTOR...Star Wars it makes since.

Dragon Age Series

The thing that gets me is that for the most part the scale of these hallmark RPG play as good, bad, or neutral games is that.

1) small world scale

2) larger scope of options sure but its all basically non-action

3) small amount of dungeon crawl

4) world has very little amount of interactable objects in its space

5) the path of the player is strictly controlled

-Like it or not large amount of areas in those games are entirely off limits until conditions are met.

6) Much larger development teams, like 5 to 10 times the size

7) If RPG isn't really your thing you wont enjoy anything else

8) relatively long cut scenes that get in the way of action oriented players

-Cant actually stress this enough!! Long Scenes are long and get boring when playing the game again to see the other outcomes for some of us at least...

9) Canned Options sometimes come into direct conflict of how awesome the player is due to optional side content that the player may have completed..

9a) You found the uber sword of god slaying but late game NPC's act inappropriately in accordance to your awesome ability at [censored] slapping people that so much as make an inappropriate comment in your prescene....I really hate this about such games.

9b) You cannot kill people in those games just because you feel like it either, so what about essential NPC's that's been a plague on a lot of games since Ultima

10) Since the focus is almost entirely on the RPG aspect much of the combat really isn't as satisfying as it needs or should be when compared to other games.

-Witcher you really don't have any say in how Protag stabs someone it just happens

->Same with Dragon Age series

-Mass Effect 1 and ME 2 also felt lame in regards to FPS mechanics

Apparently there are options for games out there to satisfy those that need RPG with lots of Options.

Thing is that is not the primary focus of a Beth Game,

The thing that they do well is Dungeon Crawls, World Spaces, Combat (yep it can be said that they have done a decent job with combat now), Mods, and pretty much the ability to just up and go anywhere without being tied down to a quest to go do it. You don't have to quest, and there will be plenty of stuff there that's interesting in the environment and not all the stuff found even ties into main quest nope it might have nothing to do with story or lore but its still in the game providing insight of its local inhabitants that lends an amount of believability to the idea that people are living in the area.

There are a lot of systems at play in a Bethsada game that often get entirely overlooked when comparing games, this is unfortunate but anyhow those systems are for the most part entirely absent in every game people throw at a Bethsada game to "compare"

The only thing that can be believably be said is that Bethsada doesn't have an A+ RPG element but that doesn't detract from its games for me and many others.

There are in fact a lot of people that play Bethsada Games that would be dead set against the steps that would be needed to turn Bethsada Games into clones of your other preferred game.

Like a more fully fleshed out back-story, given how the small amount of back-story has created many lengthy threads on how Bethsada betrayed its fans well its just funny but for the most part those other games have more back-story and/or a means of picking options to flesh out the back-story....This would not go over well at all with a BSG game and its fan base.

More Options in Dialogue means even more problems, see those options all have to be accounted for if they are given...That's a much larger task than people want to think. Doable sure, but it does have an effect on scale. Developers don't want to spend time on something like that when its unlikely to be seen or appreciated, more time spent on something like that the more they want to force you to see that pathing or thing that was made...Only makes since.

For the most part it seems overly clear to me that Todd and crew don't really care for fulfilling evil doer fantasy. Of course it just may be that they didn't see any real reason for why the quest they opted for and its tone would even cope or adjust to such a play through... Perhaps they just didn't want to build that in.

Overall Issue,

Despite the many games in the RPG genre making claims to being "open-world game" what is often overlooked is that those games are very much on Rails still.

Absolutely not. I've been playing Beth for the better part of 20 years now.

While you always have the option of being a reprehensible person (Fallout 3 and NV are excellent examples), honestly, I don't think that is the way that the games were meant to be played and I have never played such a character. Sure, some of my characters do acts that are not the nicest all the time, but, in general, they are there to "save the world" or "save people", not to just be a complete di** and take advantage of people for their own gain.

An example would be Skyrim or Oblivion. Yes you become a member of the DB or the TG, but there is honor there and you are not arbitrarily being a psychopath or a sociopath.

I realize that I limit myself by not even considering this sort of character, but, it is not me and I do not play that way. I won't. I don't need such behavior in a game as an outlet for those feelings. I don't have those feelings. That's not to say that I am never cruel in real life, or that I am a good-two-shoes, or even that I do not enjoy a little bit of sadism from time to time, but, I do not, nor have I ever had the desire to be a murderous thug, a thief or an outright destructive person. It's just me.

I get in this argument constantly on the forums because I do not understand this sort of RP at all and probably never will. I do not understand the need or the desire for this sort of RP.

It is a weakness in me. I have no problem writing such a character in my books and will admit that many of my critics have often called my villains horrifying. But there is always a grain of humanity there, always a motivation for the behavior and greed, avarice and sadism are never the reasons.

And that's fine. Your playstyle is catered to in Fallout 4.

I'm a nice guy in real life. Hold down a steady job, I have responsibilities to a family. I'm not generally mean or cruel, at least not vindictively, and I'm not a killer. But in Bethesda's games I can be whoever I like. Join the Dark Brotherhood, be that bad ass assasin, recruit Jericho, fight for the Legion, or maybe I like to just blur the moral lines. For me, that freedom adds value to the game and makes them somewhat unique. Its one of the reasons I've been playing Bethesda's games since Oblivion. Its not an outlet for a shadier side of my real personality, its simply a way to have fun. Its merely entertainment, especially when you consider the fact that most bad guys are typically more complex and interesting than most good guys, and from a roleplaying perspective that gives you so much more to work with.

But I can't really do that in Fallout 4. My 'toys' have been taken away from me, for want of a better phrase, and Fallout 4 is less of a game because of that.

I think we're gonna get alternate story/character DLC.

Maybe one were you start as a resident of vault, or maybe even a raider or a synth.

Pre-made characters like in FO and FO2.