MineCraft is about progressing in level and strength, though. The first time I fought them, I got blown up, my pathetic base destroyed. But as time wore on, I became more aware of them, learned the tactics, got Diamond Swords - but they were still there, able to screw up everything. And Skyrim takes a very 'fight or flight' perspective, just like Creepers - you either fight them or run the hell away.

People are talking about Oblivion gates, and how they were bad - but the reason they were bad was because they were repetitive. Every place was the same, and if you wanted to complete it, it would take hours. I want to be walking across a glacier when suddenly, out of the fog, I hear the piercing cry of a dragon, and run for my life, not even able to see my adversary. And I want to be walking out of a crypt with one of the beasts right in front of my face, where the only option is to fight.

Dragon fights will not be repetitive. And that's a fact (hopefully).

They better not put in a dragon right in the beginning of the game, like right when you escape execution. Or at least, a dragon that you have to fight and conquer. Seeing a dragon that early in the game would be fine, but fighting one? No thanks.

i think bgs was getting annoyed about fans begging for dragons after oblivion was released, and maybe some of the bethesda developers were all like in there heads "fine! you guys will get your dragons! they will be the new cliffracers for our new tes sequel! are all of you happy now? muhahahahah! "

I see this misinformation lots and I don't know why it's spreading. Todd said three dragons at once is too many. He did not say they are making it so only one can attack you at a time.

And that's why I think the main story plot of Skyrim is not suited for an open world sandbox RPG, just like the Oblivion crisis plot wasn't suited for it and didn't work because of it (among other reasons...). I like dragons and I think Beth did a very good job putting them into the game from all I can see. But a dragon invasion simply can't work in a game where you start as a level 1 guy who is weaker than any farmer boy. The problem imo is that Bethesda tries to make 'epic' main quests since Oblivion. Probably because the majority of 'plug and play' gamers prefers a right-in-your-face 'dragon invasion, death and fire everywhere, safe the world!' story instead of well-written, subtle story with twists and turns that is not about a horde of demons or dragons trying to kill everyone and trying to destroy the world.



I can only repeat...a level 1 character defeating a dragon doesn't make much sense and is an immersion killer to me, even if it's a 'hard' battle (as hard as a battle can be that is won by someone who barely knows how to eat his lunch without hurting himself). Only baby dragons all over the place while you're low level is also an immersion killer.

I agree I think a running scene right at the start of the game would be perfect. As you're not strong enough to deal with them or know in fact, HOW to deal with them.

Those evil casual people, they ruin everything.

And yeah, the story is totally going to be plain and action oriented, because we heard so much about it...

In many beginner D&D campaigns for level 1-3 characters there tend to be a young advlt white dragon for a challenging confrontation. I guess that would ruin your immersion as well...

I can't agree with you here. I think Beth actually develops the game they would like to play themselves. I DO think however, they make it fan-friendly. But not in ways of dumbing down the game so that we the "Unintellectual fans" would be satisfied.
I also think it's BEST suited for a game like Skyrim, simply because open-world RPG's are very RARE, and I think it's interesting seeing how they implement dragons as living creatures, interacting with the world. Which is VERY difficult, I'm sure.


With that I agree. I'm hoping for a running away scene at the beginning of the game

Similar to the beginning of Half-Life 2? When you're running away from the CP officers.

We heard there is a dragon invasion with dragons trying to destroy the world. Not exactly a subtle plot if you ask me. Besides that is not really the point I was trying to make. The point is that a plot where you constantly encounter some of the most fearsome creatures known in ES lore doesn't work in a game where you start as a level 1 rookie and stay at a similar level for a rather long time. Because there is no logical reason why you shouldn't die like everyone else as long as you are a weakling (apart from being the main protagonist of the game, which is no reason if it is rubbed in your face in such a constant and blatantly obvious fashion).



If there was a D&D campaign where the whole world is flooded by dragons attacking towns and settlements everywhere and all you would ever encounter were young white dragons then yes, it would ruin my immersion.

EDIT:



Don't get me wrong, I'm usually not one of the people who say 'ES games are dumbed down'. I don't care for spears or crossbows, I don't mind that they remove attributes and I don't want a medium armor skill back. I also like the idea of implementing dragons. I love dragons, while they're not the most original fantasy creatures they are probably the most popular ones for a reason. But I think a more subtle plot with only a few dragons who don't necessarily want to destroy the world would have been much better for an open world game like Skyrim. That way you could make them as strong as they should be and the player could avoid them until he is strong enough. With an invasion there is no immersive way to do this because a level 1 character will meet dragons (since it's a large invasion) and he must be able to defeat them (since otherwise he'd be running away all the time, see my reasonings above to see why I think that won't happen).

I italicized the parts I am responding to. Firstly you're a dragonborn not some random level 1 rookie. Your first dragon shout will probably play a big role in your first dragon battle. Secondly we know nothing about just how the plot will unfold or if the world is "flooded by dragons attacking towns and settlements everywhere." Honestly that sounds more like Fallout: TES style than what's happening in Skyrim. Considering dragons can talk and the player will talk to some it sounds like the plot will be more than some generic "big bad dragons invade" story.

I completely agree. Although I sometimes hated that I needed to avoid certain areas in Morrowind when I was at lower levels, I actually felt accomplished when I was finally able to venture in and not die. Oblivion did not adequately reflect this, and basically everything was easy for every character. Dragons need to be difficult... all the time. They should always be significantly better than the character. I know that there are going to be times when I go "dragon hunting", but I always want that experience to be a serious challenge. If I need to wait till I'm level 40 to hunt for a dragon intentionally (outside of the scripted or chance encounters) then thats okay. I'd rather have to wait than be able to kill them right away.

I can see what you mean, but you gotta remember what they said about the plot. There's much hidden, we don't know what has awoken Alduin yet, and we don't know who are all the characters on the wall, we don't know their part. From what I understood from the interviews and articles so far, it's been said that the plot this time is very deep and well thought through, so I'm hopefully confident that they'll give it their own twist of original implementation of dragons this time around.

NOTE: We also know that there are dragons who speak native language, which don't fight along side Alduin. That brings a whole new side to the storyline, don't you think?

The board just completely ate an edit I tried to make to my post.

It's never been confirmed exactly what the dragons' objective is. It HAS been confirmed that you can talk to some dragons.

I don't care.

It seems logical to me for BGS to use dragons as a way of accelerating the plot. Oblivion gates did this (tediously after a while) in Oblivion, and the Sleepers did this in Morrowind. Zombie attacks also did this for the King of Worms questline in Daggerfall, but only weakly. The tactic has been effectively (and enjoyably) used in many games, though most of the ones I'd name would be considered ancient by most gamers today.

Basically, once you reach a certain point in the rising action, this mechanic is intended to accelerate you toward a dramatic climix in the action.

They can keep this from getting too annoying by making it clear that going past a certain point in the quest chain will accelerate things. That way people who don't want to deal with dragon hordes just yet can spend some time chopping wood or whatever their priorities are before resuming the main action.

false NOTHING IS CONFIRMED, you might think oh, well they said it was going to be this way. False promise troll is FALSE. anything that you assume is "confirmed' is subject to change, and last time i checked there is no game out on shelves yet so what physical proof do you have, no words dont count thats verbal not physical sir.

TRUST ME check out all the false promises on brink its so much BULL!!!!

look at all the false promises of obama!!!

and last of all: the only thing that can be proven to be confirmed through my indepth string theory anolysis is that there will be an elder scroll featered in the game as there has been since TES (the original) and thus strengthening this theory further, it can be observed by the titilitic evidence.

I actually agree on this one. It's been ES tradition since... ever. And I am sure they'll make it interesting for us, not in any corny way too. And yeah, the game has too many options to center itself mainly around dragons. As it has endless possibilities to perform.

Sneakmaster: Please don't make meaningless posts just to raise your post count, no one will value you more if you have a higher rank.

What it boils down to:
Dragons are rare encounters.
Unlike Oblivion Gates, which are finite in number, dragons would not be able to be driven to extinction.

(I wonder... would dragons remain at the end of the main quest? Because that would almost mean Dragons will be in future TES games as well if that's the case. I see no problem with that.)

I actually encourage it! We'll call it "Return of the Dragons"

We've absolutely nothing to go on to suggest wether or not Dragons are Rare.........so lets not

short answer, yes. Well let me be more clear, they are to a degree rare and to a degree not. They won't be in every nook and cranny of the game, but say you've been traveling for hours you might just find yourself intangled in a battle. It's supposed to be like a boss battle, so they aren't as common as nirn root (my speculation from our beloved Todd Howard interviews)

Well they are rare in the context of the whole series. It's my bet we won't see them again after Skyrim. So enjoy them while the last

I think Bethesda knows what they're doing this time around.

I think you guys have a lack of faith here.
An oblivion gate could not effect game balance, they were frequent and annoying, but gave no real gameplay advantages.
However, dragons give you dragon shouts. If I end up killing 5 dragons on my way from point A to point B, I've just gained a ridiculous amount of power in a short span of time.
I have to believe that at least someone will go "Wow! That was awesome I just killing like 7 dragons! 'Cept now I have the ability to blow fire in everyone's faces"

The consequence of too many dragons is not as extreme as the consequence of too many oblivion gates.