Am I the only one that likes the new Perk system? : V - Skyrim

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:15 pm

I do

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:11 am

i still think you should be able to re-assign your perks, or get all the perks. replaying over and over just to use the perks the missed the last time is just a waste of time

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:38 am

kind of pointless to try and argue with all of the mouth-breathing "perk system"er's. They actually believe all the stats did was increase your MP, HP, and SP.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:01 am

I play most of my games on the PC but I'm not console hater, I have an xbox that I play frequently.

But he's absolutely right about a Bethseda game. If you have a PC that will run it, or can afford to get a PC that can run it, getting it for a console is a poor choice. Even if your PC can't max it out you should still get it for PC.

kind of pointless to try and argue with all of the mouth-breathing "perk system"er's. They actually believe all the stats did was increase your MP, HP, and SP.

Why don't you explain to us the awesomeness of the attribute system then, because I'm not seeing it. I'll repeat my argument from last page since people might have missed the last post.

Lets say in Oblivion you have a dunmer wizard with 100 intelligence, and I have a nord berserker with 30 intelligence. In what way is your character actually shown to be smarter than mine? Sure you have more magicka reserves, but is that really what passes for intelligence on Nirn?

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:20 pm

I like perks. But I also liked attributes. I would've liked to have both.

Dungeons and Dragons has attributes (aka ability scores) and perks (aka feats) at the same time, and millions of people have been playing and loving it for years...also not a video game so that probably factors into it. But still.

But YES, I do like perks, a lot. In the same way as D&D feats, I think perks are a good way to individualize your character and tailor him/her to suit your idea of the character concept you're trying to portray.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:33 pm

First off they are abilities, not perks. Perk is a word used by fallout as a touch of fallout flavor, and doesn't belong in the elder scrolls series. They can call them perks all they want but that does not make it so. Another mod I am going to make is changing them back to what they should be called. its also amazing that it took them two games to finally call it stamina instead of Fatigue.

Should have made it where you could choose any one of the abilities in the tree at any skill level but have incrementally better versions of that ability depending on the skills level. like I hate that I have to spend one of my points on a useless Ability so i can get to one I am going to use. If they are going to do that kind of crap, then make it to where some abilities cost more than one ability point.

You seem to be way more concerned over the name of Perks than anyone should be.

And attributes and perks are seperate things. I would very much like to have attributes back. It's a shame though, because the functionality probably isn't in the creation kit. It was nearly impossible to add new skills/attributes in Oblivion without weird script workarounds that were not well integrated.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:18 pm

I'll repeat my argument from last page since people might have missed the last post.Lets say in Oblivion you have a dunmer wizard with 100 intelligence, and I have a nord berserker with 30 intelligence. In what way is your character actually shown to be smarter than mine? Sure you have more magicka reserves, but is that really what passes for intelligence on Nirn?

The fact that the dunmer wizard is played by me, and understands that stats do more than just increase your MP, HP, and SP.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:06 pm

I love the new system.

No more micro-managing skill gains just to get a decent multiplier when you level up.
No more worrying about leveling too fast or too slow based on your "Favored" skills.
And because of the "two hands, two options" system, no more switching between casting spells and using a weapon.

While more skills and attributes gave you more statistical differences in your character, the new system allows for more hybridization of classes fluidly in actual game play (you know, the part of a GAME that actually matters?). Though, they could have expanded on the weaponry available. Different types of bows, for example. Was never a big fan of Crossbows or Throwing Weapons, but FFS they had them in only one game and it doesn't make much sense to remove them. Just put both under the "archery" skill set and make everyone happy.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:54 am

It's a completely unnecessary change. It didn't fix any problems that the old system had (which were few, to be honest) and introduced many of it's own.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:08 pm

No, you're not. I love the perks and my only problem is that I want them all really early but I have to work for it.

j/k...I'm developing my character slowly and trying all kinds of things. I just tried that Flame Cloak spell tonight for the first time because I found a book...wow, what a spell. I'm also loving my Mage Armor perk so I can wear my robes with my Boots of Muffle.

So many things to play with!

:tes:

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:05 pm

I also love perks. The only ones I hate are the armor ones that require the head piece to get the effect. I like showin mah face. I hope it'll be possible to edit that out in the CK

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:06 pm

i like this game except for the levelling/perk system, it just seems a little broken. just my opinion

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:07 pm

The fact that the dunmer wizard is played by me, and understands that stats do more than just increase your MP, HP, and SP.

Is this really the best you could come up with to counter my point :rofl:

You didn't bother mentioning all the wonderful things that the attributes did.

I also love perks. The only ones I hate are the armor ones that require the head piece to get the effect. I like showin mah face. I hope it'll be possible to edit that out in the CK

There's already a mod for that. Called something like "no helmets required"

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:43 am

Is this really the best you could come up with to counter my point :rofl: You didn't bother mentioning all the wonderful things that the attributes did.

Why bring my A game against someone who's obviously mentally invalid? I mean seriously, you compared an RP issue to a game mechanic.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:25 pm

Why bring my A game against someone who's obviously mentally invalid? I mean seriously, you compared an RP issue to a game mechanic.

The Elder Scrolls is ostensibly a Role Playing Game right?

There should be role playing built into the game. See Fallout. Fallout 3 and New Vegas do a decent job of this, but Fallout 1 and 2 do it even better. Having higher attributes actually makes a difference.

It's your argument that attributes matter, but instead of defending your argument you are trying to toss ad hominems but didn't even bother to make an effective Ad hominem.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:36 am

The Elder Scrolls is ostensibly a Role Playing Game right?

There should be role playing built into the game. See Fallout. Fallout 3 and New Vegas do a decent job of this, but Fallout 1 and 2 do it even better. Having higher attributes actually makes a difference.

It's your argument that attributes matter, but instead of defending your argument you are trying to toss ad hominems but didn't even bother to make an effective Ad hominem.

If you base your RP style solely on what attributes and skills and stats you have available to you, you're doing it wrong. :shakehead:

Roleplaying is essentially acting. You don't NEED to have points in a Strength attribute to ROLEPLAY Hercules.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:34 am

I have to admit that my first reaction when I heard attributes were gone was "They are dumbing down TES!!". I see a lot of people still believe this after playing the game. I see a TON of posts saying that Skyrim is dumbed down as compared to Oblivion because attributes are gone.

The truth is... I actually like the new perk system! I even prefer having perks vs the attributes in Skyrim.

Of course if I was give a choice I would prefer to have perks AND attributes. But if we are purely comparing Oblivion (no perks) vs Skyrim (no attributes), I actually prefer the system in Skyrim.

Before someone flames me, I have to clarify that I am referring to the system itself. I am not saying Bethesda did an excellent job coming up with Perks or making sure they are all balanced/useful. I think this is something that Bethesda should be able to improve in TES VI.

I think perks are much more strategic than having attributes. In Oblivion if I was a mage I would simply dump points into Willpower and Intelligence. I find myself thinking more about how to spend perk points than attribute points.

Also, I am not claiming the TES series has been leaning towards "simplifying" gameplay. Morrowind was a much deeper game, and then a lot of things were dumbed down in Oblivion, and now the same in Skyrim (ie. spellmaking, alchemy, armor types, etc.). All I am saying is that the perk system in Skyrim is an improvement over Oblivion's system.

I agree, replacing the attributes with skill upgrades was one of their best design decisions.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:57 am

If you base your RP style solely on what attributes and skills and stats you have available to you, you're doing it wrong. :shakehead:

Roleplaying is essentially acting. You don't NEED to have points in a Strength attribute to ROLEPLAY Hercules.

I think you missed the point of my argument.

I totally agree with you. The way attributes were in previous elder scrolls games they didn't matter at all for roleplaying purposes.

But take for example fallout 2, if you had an intelligence under 4 (10 point scale) the entire game had different dialogue! Literally the entire game! Now you missed out on a lot of quests because you talked like an idiot and people talked down to you like an idiot, but it was still awesome. This is an example of how attributes can have real importance.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:15 am

The Elder Scrolls is ostensibly a Role Playing Game right?There should be role playing built into the game. See Fallout. Fallout 3 and New Vegas do a decent job of this, but Fallout 1 and 2 do it even better. Having higher attributes actually makes a difference.It's your argument that attributes matter, but instead of defending your argument you are trying to toss ad hominems but didn't even bother to make an effective Ad hominem.

So you agree with me now? I don't get it. You said attributes were worthless, then you use Fallout as an example about how they aren't useless.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:27 pm

So you agree with me now? I don't get it. You said attributes were worthless, then you use Fallout as an example about how they aren't useless.

Attributes aren't useless IN FALLOUT

As implemented in Elder Scrolls, they are totally redundant.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:21 am

I think you missed the point of my argument.I totally agree with you. The way attributes were in previous elder scrolls games they didn't matter at all for roleplaying purposes.But take for example fallout 2, if you had an intelligence under 4 (10 point scale) the entire game had different dialogue! Literally the entire game! Now you missed out on a lot of quests because you talked like an idiot and people talked down to you like an idiot, but it was still awesome. This is an example of how attributes can have real importance.

Attributes aren't useless IN FALLOUTAs implemented in Elder Scrolls, they are totally redundant.

http://www.svatopluk.com/arena/manual/stats.stm
2. Intelligence: INT
This governs how smart you are. It affects the total amount of spell points you get to cast spells with. Intelligence affects your chances in negotiating for items and other purchases. It also affects your chances of figuring out a lock in case you wish to pick it. It is essential that any mage or thief has a high Intelligence.

That's from Arena's game manual. So yes, stat's actually did do something in Elder Scrolls games. Oblivion just had "simplified" attributes. Not every game in the series.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:11 pm

Should have specified, elder scrolls games that people played. I don't know how Elder Scrolls: Redguard works either.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:25 am

Should have specified, elder scrolls games that people played. I don't know how Elder Scrolls: Redguard works either.

Pot, meet my friend kettle. Ad hominem, all that and et cetera.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:04 am

That wasn't ad hominem, I didn't say anything about you in that post.

If it makes you happy I'll amend my argument to "Elder scrolls games since morrowind" since I never played any before, but I rarely hear people say they wished anything was more like daggerfall.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:52 pm

Initially when I heard that attributes were gone, I panicked a bit. But then a few mature, well thought out posts by a few people on a certain forums put my mind at ease.

Perks are indeed much better than attributes. Attributes were very confusing and clunky.

I'm in favor of merging heavy armor and light armor into one skill called armor, then create specialized perks for heavy or light armor in that single tree.