I think Bethy makes a good point. Bethesda's work and time isn't free. I'm sure there are a million things they'd like to add, but have to cut corners to be able to keep a realistic time table and stay within budget. A modder's time is free (at least from Bethesda's point of view), so they can fiddle and tweak and come up with the greatest things in their own time to add to the game.

Thinking the release of the modding tools is a way for Bethesda to be lazy about what they do, seems rather cynical to me. But, I can see why they would think so, especially if you see the quality of some of the mods out there. I would argue that maybe it's more a way of Bethesda saying, hey look, within the constraints we placed upon ourselves this game is the best we could do. If you want to do it better or differently, here you go and knock yourself out.

In the spirit of the argument of the OP; if Bethesda really wanted to get away with 'less', then for TES VI they could just release the modding tools and be done with it.

No. I love Oblivion more than any other game I've ever played, as well.

Well sometimes mods is only way to fix problems thats was not fixed with patches, TES game is big and devs didn't have much time and resources to test many aspects with internal quality dept, without pubic beta testing like for example Blizzard do thats hard task, so mods really help with such problem.
As well console players can see how game must become if devs have more resources to make actual TES game thats have more links with previous games, what was axed from game by various reasons.
They can expand their gameplay experience furtherer with new roles what impossible with vanilla.

But I don't think modding will be expanded so much as it done at PC, consoles have limitations thats hard overcome or even impossible,
Thats obvious hardware limitations (RAM, HDD space, graphical system), thats software limitations (inability use utilities like OBSE, Wrye Bash, BOSS, OBMM what essential for modders now), thats censorship and copyright policy of Sony and Microsoft, and even limitations of on-line services of PSN and Live like limited bandwidth.

There is two ways of console modding can be in such situations
Official community packs
Sets of tested and bugfree popular mods compatible with consoles and fit to requirement from above and approved by devs and platform holders.
and
Self installed additions from your local space with file transfer via FTP or USB, you will need to have PC as intermediary for file transfer and prepare in such cases it will be not so user friendly as option from above what can work as simple DLC, you actually need to know how install such mods, and you still will have software and hardware limitations, so modding in such form will not so popular but can be achieved, such modding even already achieved but it unofficial and in many cases violate EULA of platform holders.

No.

Same here. Modded Oblivion is the best game ever IMO (more versatility than a Swiss Army Knife) but vanilla Oblivion was also amazing and I had much enjoyment with it as well.

I agree completely with Edgar's complete agreement to Dew's complete disagreement. :ninja: 'd

I'll add something smart to say, don't worry, gimme time..


And yes, Umrahel has a good point, if they'd be really (ridiculously) lazy, they could just do the map and mountains in the game and let the modders add cities, quests, weapons, creatures and dungeons to it.

iam on ps3.but even if i was on pc i would disagree 100%.if mods came to console then more money would go to them which means better mods.duh!plus everyone should enjoy mods!

I always prefer the console controller to a keyboard/mouse, and because of it i've never got to enjoy the construction set. I CANT DECIDE TO BUY THE 360 COPY OR THE PC COPY?!?
so i propose one of two fixes. 1. have the 360 controller work identical on my PC, or 2. put a lil hot fudge on my vanilla skyrm: there is a slight solution to all this, you could create a lite editor that would be as simple as a race creator. you could even make those items require the same amount of balance that is already in the game, or... you could let them be way off balance. when it comes down to it, it's a one player game! who cares if someone cheats? I want to pre-order my copy, but which one? PC or 360? I wanna play the game with a half orc half elf battlemage with a 360 controller. Is that to much to ask for?

Not at all! I'm sorry, but you're just totally wrong!

On a related note, I'd rather have a worse game and mods on consoles. But that doesn't mean I agree with your point! You're still completely wrong!

Mods are an addition to the game, they wouldn't even think about this.

There's an Xbox 360 PC controller available, in wired or wireless varieties.



You know modders aren't paid, right?

Agreed. The higher quality console games are the more they damage the industry. I want them to stay low quality.

I wouldn't want to see mods go to consoles either but I totally disagree with the reasons why stated in the OP. Beth gives us more in a game than anyone else out there. They aren't making a "basic" game and letting mod'ers fill in the rest.

I'm more concerned over the effects console mods would have on the PC mod community, consolizing the mod'ing experience and lowering overall quality of mods in general, I'd worry about the influx of the console community and the effect that will have on segregating the mod community/makers into more private areas to control the release of their mods making them less available overall, I'm concerned that in an effort to meet MS and Sony's standards for what they will allow to go onto their consoles future versions of the CK will be simplified and scaled back to make sure mods can't be created that impact the security and stability of the consoles.

There are a lot of reasons not to want mods on consoles, just not the ones the OP listed.

I'm with Mountain Dew!

So Bethesda made Civilization 5, Neverwinter Nights 2, the various Dragon Age games, and the Age of Empires games?

Look man the vanilla style was good in fact amazing! After i beat that i wanted to play more so i wanted mods to make it more fun and so i got the pc version and put my own spin on the game with the mods.
So all im saying is if mods were on console that fine they shouldn't have to be limited to just vanilla if they like so much i would prefer to play it on console anyway. It also would make the pc vs console war less offensive then when they both have mods.

Sony allows advlt rated content, sixual fetish stuff, running a torture chamber, Michael Jackson with kids mods? They really must have an open attitude.

Or do they mostly allow map level creations, even with a total world conversion? There is a difference between a map level editor and the full fledged construction/creation/tool kit. I seriously doubt either Microsoft or Sony will allow some material on their distribution system.

NWN also had a toolkit, and there are hundreds of player made mods out, some with content as good as, if not better, than the game. And I know there are NWN mods that Microsoft and Sony wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole, due to content.

When you get into who will be responsible for content, compatibility, stability, and possible conflicts is the big roadblock. It would take time and money; how many times have people been ranting about how long it takes to certify console patches, and those come from Bethesda.

I can see it happening, but not in the near future.

I think it will be fine because it is a CHOICE to use mods or not. If you don't want to then don't. I don't think it will change Bethesda's work ethic or how they make games.

No your not. Best game I haver ever played and that is counting 35+ years of gaming.

I even do not like the title "vanilla". There was nothing vanilla about Oblivion. There will be nothing vanilla about Skyrim either.


When I think about "vanilla" I think Red Dead redemtion. I liked the game, but could not interact with all the people like in Oblivion. Red Dead felt completely scripted and lacked a natural feel...It was just not as immersive and Oblivion...

Knowing Bethesda or any gaming company they wouldn't leave updating/fixing games to modders. IMO I liked Oblivion w/o any mod's, let alone Skyrim.




I'll let Dragon's eat people... Just not me. :mage: :tes:

I actually agree... because modders tend not to take the game's story and lore seriously, which means that most mods (from what I've seen) totally clash with the experience of the game. They often add ridiculous weapons and abilities that shouldn't really be obtainable in the game (like a mini-nuke shooting submachine gun). The idea of being able to make content for the game is really wonderful, but at the end of the day, most people just use it to cheat and do stupid things that spoil the game's intended and well thought out experience, which ultimately results with people playing and appreciating the game for the wrong reasons (they like to screw around with mods, but they don't like the story, challenge, environment, etc.) If mods come to consoles, more and more players will download silly mods (not to say that there aren't good mods out there), and fewer and fewer will appreciate what's really good about the game.

I agree with this disagreement.

OP you actually miss the entire point of what mods are for and come in here and [censored] on Bethesda as being lazy ass developers who don't really care about the Elder Scrolls series and consoles are the only thing holding them back from releasing terrible turds of games. Go back to read your post. Then you [censored] on modders as not having any real creativity, vision, and passion of their own to say they merely only do what Bethesda should have done.

Mod's represent the empowerment of the gamer and gaming community. There are 1,000's of mods for Oblivion alone representing each individual vision and output by creative minds that had the drive to get off their ass and do something instead of complaining about it or wishing for something. There is no way to try them all and they vary because each one is individual and appeal to select gamers because every gamer is different.

Besthesda doesn't owe us those modding tools either and is on of the few devs that can be counted on one hand that actually supports full modding of their game instead of keeping DLC and extra content in house to generate money soley for them.

You really miss the point. Maybe mods should be on console so you can actually experience what it is truly about.

The problem I see with bringing mods to the consoles, well besides the legal, logistical, hardware constraints, security, and infrastructural problems, is that mod quality would go down if we have to also design for the console players. Most of the big amazing mods that you see today are made possible by using script extenders or bashed patches and almost all the big mods include their own meshes and textures. Because of these issues we'd be limited to using vanilla resources and while TIE comes to mind, I can not think of any other 'big' mod out there that only uses vanilla resources.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see my work being used by console players but I'd also hate to see the overall quality of the mods created by the community diminished because of 5 year old hardware and a hodgepodge of other issues. If I had to put money on it I'd say that Sony's next gen will be able to use mods when TESVI is released.


I also wouldn't say that Beth is lazy, they give us the CS to keep us playing their games which lets be honest, if it wasn't for the CS in Oblivion I would have gave up on that game a long time ago.

it doesn't matter. either way, the mods will be ported to console. its not hard to do at all, and many of my friends do it with every game. you might not be able to run as many as on PC, but you never need that many anyways.