So did the Septim empire.

Torygg was one of the best example of a leader we have seen in Skyrim, he handles himself flawlessly in Sovngarde, putting his wife and people before his own life, marching toward his death without hesitation or self-pitty. That is far from "cowardly", but a shining example of bravery..everyone knew, including himself and Ulfric, that he had no chance at all against such a force, and yet he chose death over dishonor.



Excuse me, but 1. You're the one who brought it up. 2. You're the one who asked for more details, 3. You're the one who took the hard line of saying the biggest grievance the Empire supports have, Ulfric, isn't negotiable. and 4, you're the one who got personal and started name-calling.

Still better than the Mede.

Agreed

As for sithis it's more akin to Dark Energy,we aren't even sure it exists.

Well, Titus Mede II made too many blunders that is costing the empire so so so much. Titus Mede I was pretty awesome. Not sure how good of an emperor Attrebus grew up to be, though.

That was before the Empire died.

So if Ulfric kills Torygg and becomes High King by Nordic right... and I kill Ulfric... that means...

But anyway, Ralof suggests the Empire and Stormcloaks should stop fighting and take it to the Thalmor. I'm no Stormcloak supporter, and I treat Ulfric with utter contempt, but I think the Empire and Stormcloaks would be happy to ally against the Thalmor.

Though, of course, me being the new high king at the end of the day and all, we will all bow to the Emperor!

Sounds like a pact with the devil.

?_?

Really? Even Solitudians said he wasn't a good king. All he did was preach about the empire.

You svck! YOU svck!

Take that back.

Nope. You're not a Jarl. And killing the high king isnt a guarantee to be the king. The moot is still called to vote.

It only died in Ulfric's twisted imagination. If you want to blame someone; blame the Thalmor, stop taking your anger out on the wrong people.

The Septim empire was pretty terrible if you look at it's history, it's nothing but scandals and wars save for a few emperors and then you have the whole Jagar Tharn incident that basically caused a interregnum during Septim rule.



Look at the historical facts, it's all there

Opinions are opinions. Most people in this world and the virtual one tend to be fairly one-dimensional about certain stances. I find people to be utterly obnoxious on 99% of the "civil" law stances in the real world, that doesn't necessarily mean they're terrible people, though when all I can remember of them is all the times they dragged every single conversation into one about [Insert Political Stance Here Concerning Drugs, Guns, Choices and Rights] it's certainly easy to think they are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A_5kBJduIg

Doesn't sound like it to me.

The Empire died when Martin died and Ocato was assassinated. Cyrodiil split into Colovia and The Niben, and every other province just separated (most places), became part of the Dominion (Summerset and Valenwood) or violently removed all Imperial influence (Black Marsh). Titus Mede I was the only man with the sense and the power to try and prevent an interregnum, and do so without being the chosen one (ala Alessia, Reman, and Tiber), and try to recreate the Empire by first uniting Cyrodiil. It wasn't until sometime after the TES books that it seemed Cyrodiil was able to bring everyone else back, and we're not sure which Mede was able to accomplish this (though it looks to have been before Titus Mede II)

Pretty sure history is telling me it's nothing but awesome. Tiber Septim, Martin Septim, Uriel V, Uriel VI, Uriel VII. All great people. All great Emperors. Ruling a great Empire.

That's before you continue on to everyone else.

The Empire's the one that agreed to the WGC. They're the reason why the Thalmor is in Skyrim. I'm blaming the right people. They waited 26 years and still havent done squat....

To the best of my knowledge, it's actually just a Solitudian. Singular. That shopkeeper who's married to the blacksmith. Unless I forgot someone else.

What if I do worship gravity?

HAIL GRAVITY!

Well do you really need to be a jarl? It seems the strong just replace those who appose their ideals with those who don't. I can see the dragonborn killing all the jarls and replacing them with dragonborn supporters.

Her husband is generally ambivalent. Not a direct condemnation, but not the most glowing stance to have concerning someone's deeds.

We have no one else claiming he was actually a good king.