Wasn't there a comic about this in Penny Arcade recently? XD

Throughout history, people have been having these kinds of arguments about just about all relevant topics. Every new form of media is going to ruin its respective industry. The theatrical adaption of that book you like was terrible no matter what anyone says. All the new Final Fantasies svck, George Lucas ruined Star Wars, and Windows/Mac/Linux is clearly the best operating system and should be used by everyone. But there's a reason you never see any "all the Elder Scrolls games sure were awesome, weren't they?" posts.

In my case, that's because I didn't play Arena yet. But I can sincerely say that I think Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion are awesome.

The only thing that gets me about Arena is the control scheme. It is so awkward and hard to get past to actually enjoy the game.

Maybe one day I'll just tough it out and find that there really is a good game in there.

Really glad to see that this thread didnt turn into a flame war.

As or The Elder Scrolls.

Like many TES fans I liked Oblivon, but not as much as Morrowind. This make me want to complain about it whenever a TES debate is up.

The funny thing is, that when other people say that they liked another rpg from another developer, it seems that those fans who used to bash Oblivion now starts to defend it against other rpg's.

Stupid Morrowind fan boy.

The new Star Wars movies weren't as good as the old ones according to most people.

The new Clash of the Titans wasn't as good as the old one according to most people.

Did George Lucas ruin Star Wars? According to a lot of people? Yeah, he did.

Did Oblivion totally fail according to a lot of people? Yeah, it did.

See where I'm going with this? Just because one applies some stupid "nostaliga syndrome" bullcrap label to it doesn't make it any different. People didn't like Oblivion for many different reasons. Stop trying to write it off as hyperbole or whatever.

No matter whether you think it was good or bad doesn't make that huge group of people hate it any less. While the people who didn't like the game have a plethora of ACTUAL QUANTIFIABLE REASONS (no culture, no religion, repetitive, what have you), the only explanation that the people who say that we have it for no reason have NO REASON to explain why we hate it for no reason (Despite the many reasons given) besides "nostalgia googles" and other horse crap like that.

So some people don't like your special game? Deal with it. I've heard a ton of Daggerfall players have complaints about Morrowind. And guess what? They're totally legitimate complaints (usually).

Well, first of all, I'm more a TES-fan than an Oblivion-fan. Secondly, we never spoke directly about you. If you know you have no trouble saying something positive about Oblivion, well, then that statement isn't meant for you, is it?

I wholeheartedly agree.

WOW GUYS, GOOD THING I NEVER SAID ANYTHING BAD ABOUT MORROWIND'S COMBAT SYSTEM, AND HAVE STATED REPEATEDLY THAT IT IS MY FAVORITE ELDER SCROLLS GAME. THE TARGETED INSULTS AT SPECIFIC COMMUNITY MEMBERS UP IN HERE SURE ARE HILARIOUS AND AWESOME. CONGRATULATIONS, HERE'S YOUR HONORARY INTERNET TOUGH GUY CARDS.

I don't recall saying anything bad about Morrowind's combat system, either. Only once have I ever stated that it feels awkward, and that's all I've said about it. :huh: As for compliments, does "Morrowind is my second favorite game of all time" not count? When I compliment Morrowind, I may compliment Oblivion, as well. "I love Jeremy Soule's music for Morrowind and Oblivion." "I love the smaller, more detailed worlds of Morrowind and Oblivion." "I love exploration in Morrowind and Oblivion." "I love Elder Scrolls lore, which has only been fleshed-out for the past two Elder Scrolls games." "I love collecting certain things in both games."

Who are you even talking to? Are you just generalizing everybody who likes Oblivion?

I do agree about the Nostalgia goggles though. That's a complete crap excuse that I sort of find insulting. There are many legitimate reasons for preferring Morrowind to Oblivion, but in the end it all just comes down to opinion, and are people really going to stoop as low as to insult peoples opinions on this matter?

Caps lock is cruise control for cool.


Wait, do you read your own posts or just post them? Because your Oblivion bias is nearly as bad as my Morrowind bias, but you casually write it off as you liking both games. Let's be honest here. Morrowind is my favorite game, and Oblivion is not my second, third, fourth, or fifth favorite game. Don't lie to us just to attempt to maintain a guise of neutrality here, because it's not at all hard to see through.

I think everyone around here should pump the brakes just a bit, calm down and play your favorite game (whether it be OB or MW) and cool off, that way we aren't posting messages in all caps anymore.

Morrowind is a my second favorite game, and don't you question it. I'm overly excited and waiting for TES V because I know I'll like it no matter how it turns out, because I already like the three big games Todd was in control of, and they are all in my top 5 game list. I've read my posts, and I defend Oblivion because I believe it has a ridiculous amount of criticism which it doesn't deserve. If I had to defend Morrowind from Daggerfall fans, I would do it, and when I have to defend TES V from Oblivion fans, I will do it. I regularly play Daggerfall, Morrowind, and Oblivion and I do love the latter two. I like Daggerfall, though.

How noble of you. :thumbsup:

Your problem Seti, and while I have the same one, is that in your eyes, any amount of criticism in your eyes is ridiculous. Granted you don't get as bent out of shape about it as others (won't mention any names), but the second someone says anything wrong about Oblivion, its like a crime in your eyes, and you have to fight it, regardless of the validity of the criticisms. For instance, that plot thread awhile back, I mentioned the flaws of the Oblivion plotline, and you and I argued about it, and then you tell me you didn't like the plot either.

Wait what? You argued with me about something you agreed with, because why? I said I didn't like something about Oblivion. It can be a legitimate concern (elves with the same voices, changing lore drastically) and you'll argue not because you genuinely agree with design decisions, but instead because you have such an anti-anti Oblivion complex, you will let it cloud your judgment and something that you may actually agree with, you'll instantly begin to defend the subject, regardless of the matter at hand.

*Enters Room* So what did I miss? I thought I heard someone yelling?

Of course, because it's impossible to honestly enjoy both games. It must be a lie, because the settings and mechanics of both games are mutually exclusive. It is literally impossible to like both. Thanks for clearing that up.

Allow me to clarify my position. I prefer Morrowind as a game. I love the setting, the creatures, the characters (those that have personalities, anyway), the Dunmer culture, and the things that later got removed like medium armor. I prefer Morrowind's method of travel, and yes, the main quest is more enjoyable to me. HOWEVER, I also love Oblivion's setting, creatures, characters, the Imperial culture, and I don't despise its inclusions like fast travel and the quest arrow. I understand the reasoning behind their presence, and I accept them as a concept (even though in my own game, I use mods to disable them). I accept that there are people who genuinely love those things, and my own opinions on them aren't strong enough for me to try to shoot them down. What happens on the forums is that Oblivion's flaws are constantly brought up and driven into the ground, time and time again, ad nauseam. I understand, at their core, the arguments that people make against Oblivion. I get why, in theory, someone would have an issue with fast travel, or level scaling, or the voice system in Oblivion. But what I will never understand is how STRONGLY people feel about the two games, how offensive they find the design choices of Oblivion. So even though on some level I agree with the arguments being made (I don't like level scaling, I do want different voices for every race, I wish there were more skills, armor/weapon types, and things to do in Oblivion), because I feel less strongly about them, I end up defending those points because I can understand the choices that led to their existence. And then I get painted with the really devoted fan brush because I don't hate Oblivion enough. I don't think Oblivion deserves even a third of the hatred that people throw at it, so I defend it and end up getting pushed into more and more extreme arguments as the person I'm arguing with goes further and further into the other end of the spectrum. In the end, the argument becomes about who I'm arguing with, rather than what I'm arguing. It's incredibly frustrating.

So, I wouldn't be annoyed if you weren't pretending that I'm some kind of biased really devoted fan when I do love both games. I won't "calm down and play my favorite game," because that statement by its very nature suggests that we should only play one and revile the other, when in reality they both spend about equal quantities of time in my disc drive.

EDIT: @Daydark: Oh, people specifically singling me out for ridicule, trying to build me into a caricature of my actual opinions, you know, the usual.

EDIT II: I love the word filter on these forums so very, very much.

It's human nature, just because your games "spend an equal amount of time in your disc drive" doesn't mean you like them equally. You, as any other mortal person has a bias. It is impossible to not have one.


Oh please, you mean like you do to other people like me or Hircine on a regular basis. HA

As for your big wall, I'd like to address my last post to you as well. You agree with me (generally), but you defend Oblivion for the sake of defending it. That's where in my opinion, your credibility is lost in my eyes.

*throws a live grenade into the thread and then runs off*

Don't play dumb. I never said I love both equally, I said I love both. There's a crucial difference.


I'd love to see some specific examples of this.


I get the feeling that you didn't read my post, which is where, in my opinion, your credibility is lost in my eyes. I don't defend it for the sake of defending it, I defend it because even though I don't approve of all of its choices, I don't dislike them as much as you. Again, crucial difference.

I agree with everything Sir-Stabs-Alot has said (except his "fan boy" comment to me ). You guys are constantly bashing Morrowind, just as much as the rest of us bash Oblivion. The problem is, you all defend EVERY aspect of Oblivion, be it good or bad (seriously, even you have said you don't like Fast Travel, yet you debate about it all the time), whereas we will accept our flaws. sure, Morrowind could have done with better/more animations, Morrowind could have done with a better view distance, Morrowind could have done with basic AI (I'll stop here inase I get labelled a Morrowind basher again <_<). We won't debate about these problems, because they are legitimate problems.

You guys rarely ever admit to a problem Oblivion has, apart from those you know have no chance of being won in a debate (level scaling).

On a side note: I guess that moment of civility died, eh?

Nice new Avatar Juib.

I used to be a big time Oblivion Basher. But to be honest, there is WAY more Oblivion bashing going on in the forums than Morrowind bashing. Any who denies this is a little selfish.

Yeah, I think everybody needs to calm a little down and try seeing things from a different perspective, If I had some ice tea, this would probably be where I would use it. Anyways I think I'm gonna stay out of this one, there's a grenade rolling in the corner. *runs while screaming like a little girl*

Here we go, "Crucial difference, specific examples." I'm not gonna sit here and debate with you on a point by point basis, citing sources and providing examples. Because I'll lose, because quite frankly I don't care enough and don't have the patience to do so.

The only point for you to get through your head is you shouldn't make a big case just because someone slams Oblivion. People are gonna have differing opinions all your life. We're both very young, arguing about whether the 3rd or 4th installment of a game series is better is not only pointless, but will be overshadowed by actual arguments in our futures, so why get bent out of shape about it now? There will be time for it later.

I'll sit here and trash Oblivion and you can defend it till your eyes bleed, will it change either of our opinions? Absolutely not. But what you as a person should do is not take it upon yourself to be "Oblivion's Champion" and defend it from all evil like it was your god given right, because 1. Seti already has that position. (I kid I kid), and 2. It makes you look ridiculous, and gets nothing solved.

Boy I hope a mod doesn't come in here.

Well said. But that doesn't stop the Oblivion Bashing.


Anyways Oblivions lack of variety is what really got to me, however this is mostly solved with mods. The lack of skills bothered me most though. I always used spears in Morrowind, and I was downright pissed when Oblivion removed them. It still bothers me even today, yet Oblivion is the Game I play.

@Hircine: Yeah, the civility died around the time you started specifically attacking me and seti. Funny how that works.

Your problem is that you assume that the absence of comments on my end about Morrowind, the fact that I've said very little about it, is evidence that I dislike it. I've never actively tried to argue that Morrowind is a bad game, and I never will.

@Sir-Stabs-Alot I just think it's strange that an Elder Scrolls game gets so much hate on the Elder Scrolls forums. Also, I don't think you understand me very well. I spent an hour on the phone yesterday arguing with my best friend over whether or not the biology in Avatar is in any way realistic. I enjoy debate, even if it's over something trivial and it's usually in good sport. That said, are you really tempted to try to fight me on the point that there's a difference between enjoying two things and enjoying two things to an exactly equal degree? Is that really how stupid this feud as gotten? And if so, does that make me the Atius family or the Sintavs?