I found a thread from about... oh... 2005, with people who liked Daggerfall and felt that Morrowind's combat was too simplified and it's main quest was too "lore breaking". They also felt Morrowind lacked dialogue choices and how Morrowind was too "generic fantasy" for them.

The website's censored, so I can't link you guys to it. :blink: Odd.

People said things like:




There were also people saying that you couldn't make enough choices, that there wasn't enough immersion, etc.

Some people in the thread kept saying that they liked Morrowind, while other people, at the same time, said that it was a disgrace to the past games. There was specifically a person who said that they felt Bethesda was making some great original games that were moving away from "generic fantasy" until Morrowind came along.

What do you all think about this? I think it's kind-of funny when you take it into current context.

It's ironic and pure bullcrap, just as the current situation is, in my opinion. You have to love people who complain for the sake of complaining.

I bet when TES V comes out Oblivion players will insult it much like Morrowind players are doing now and Daggerfall did to them.

I think so, as well.

Actually is quite interesting, since it seems like everyone thinks Morrowind is the best game ever now.

Great works commonly go unnoticed until after their times.

It seems no matter what the game series, there is always the whole the original was better or previous. Same with movies.

Are you referring to the infamous RPG+code+x? I can't say that I personally agree with Morrowind falling under the "generic fantasy" category, or that it is a disgrace when comparing it to its predecessors. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, though. :shrug:

When Morrowind arrived, a lot of Daggerfall players complained about how Morrowind dumbed down the series and ruined everything.
When Oblivion arrived, a lot of Morrowind players complained about how Oblivion dumbed down the series and ruined everything.
When TESV arrives, a lot of Oblivion players will complain about how TESV dumbed down the series and ruined everything.

Nothing new under the sun

It's the same with everything. Older generations of people, in general, sometimes feel that way. Music lovers sometimes feel that way. TV watchers like to feel that way. The list goes on and on, and things like this have always happened. The older anyone may commonly act as if they are superior(typically mentally superior) to the newer anyone. Then, then new anyone may commonly do the same thing when the become the old anyone.

Interesting that the "point in Morrowind's favor" is that it's really big. Most comparisons are matters of opinion, but it's fairly well known that following games are rather tiny compared to Daggerfall.

tiny, yet far more detailed and what I would define as interesting

Yeah that is very true, but at least from what most everyone can agree on in these forums is, that one may feel another is better, all the games in TES series are good if not excellent games.
Which is alot better than 95% of series can say.

It's kind of like a right of passage, I think. Just like older people will often tell younger people, "Back in my day....". Sometimes there are legitimate gripes, while most of the time it is simply a matter of taste or difference in perspective.

Edit: Ninja'd by Seti :ninja:

What these forums will be like when some Oblivion fans constantly berate TES V...

I can't picture it. TES V wasn't in my vision of the future. Get the hint, Bethesda? ANNOUNCE IT, ANNOUNCE IT SO THAT YOUR FANS MAY BERATE, INSULT, AND VICIOUSLY MAUL IT!

Yeah, pretty much. :mellow:

I gotta say that each game just sort of drifts further and further from the original spirit of the elderscrolls games, but I don't think any one game has particularly ruined the series for me. Oblivion for example may not have captured the full tamrelic experience that Daggerfall provided, but it was definitely a very important chapter of the lore and left a lot of curious impacts on things to come. None of the games were a disappointment or an abomination to the series in my opinion.

Whoever said that about Morrowind needs to go read lord of the rings a generic fantasy book.

Generic Fantasy is typically men in loincloths with big axes going on about wenches and fighting wolves and bears, or knights in galliant armor going off to slay a monster for fame and fortune, in a generic grassy meadow setting, with demons (Daedra), Drows (Dunmer), and anything else typical fantasy lovers conjure up and dress up as at the local renaissance fair.

Nobody dresses up as a cliff racer at renaissance fairs, last I checked.

Hell, Daggerfall was more generic than Morrowind. I still liked it better than Oblivion though.

And for those saying "there's a theme going on", I'll have to whole-heartedly disagree. While Fallout 3 is not in the TES storyline, in terms of gameplay, development, uniqueness, and features, it beats Oblivion. If Fallout 3 was TES:V, I would say it was better than Oblivion.

Speaking of matters of taste, I don't mean anything insulting to anyone but I say this, but go down to the composer thread in TES general section and you'll see something that I mark as an interesting pattern. It seems to me to be a possibility for one to prefer Morrowind's soundtrack to Oblivion's but I find it hard to believe that one can love one without loving the other, and there are people who always post "I love Jeremy Soule's composing skills. Morrowind has an awesome soundtrack." He composed Oblivion's soundtrack, as well, which is very similar to Morrowind's, yet, people sometimes merely say "Bring back Jeremy Soule, I loved Morrowind's soundtrack." There is no mention of Oblivion's soundtrack, and that really doesn't make much sense to me. It seems as if some people made it a personal goal to never praise Oblivion. Even when Oblivion has something just like Morrowind's(even more similar than the soundtrack), people still only say the liked Morrowind's way of handling it, either as if they made that thing I mentioned a goal or aren't aware of Oblivion's existence. Does that classify as other? I'm really just curious. What is that?

Oblivion's stuff was great too, and in fact the song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ba0h4Z21wT8 ranks #1 in my TES soundtrack list.

I just use Morrowind since I grew on that music first

Really? You wouldn't be complaining about the guns, lack of quests, lack of joinable factions, lack of readable books/lore, and lack of terrain variety? Fallout 1/2 fans complained loudly enough, and not even about those features that just don't mix with TES series.

Fallout 1 and 2's gameplay was very different...

And I meant if Fallout's development went into TES:V, not make TES:V a game with power armored soldiers in wasteland DC :shakehead:

As for Books, Fallout 3 was based on traditional American History. If you want lore books, go read your high school text books :wink_smile:

As for factions, yeah, that annoyed me, but not to the point to hate it.

And quests, I also agree, were pretty limited. But it still made up for fun gameplay and interesting storyline and roleplayability. (No mudcrab conversations or NPCs getting stuck on sidewalks)

EDIT: Well, okay, MOSTLY no NPCs getting stuck on sidewalks... :homestar:

I already know traditional American history. That doesn't mean the lore isn't lacking. Excluding guns, all of those things were major complaints about Oblivion, and they were handled, with the exception of if you may consider Fallout 3's quests to be more interesting, far better in Oblivion. Fallout 3 took those things people complained about in Oblivion, and in the Oblivion-Fallout 3 transition, increased the lack of those things to a simplicity the series hasn't seen since Arena, minus quest intrigue. I think Elder Scrolls fans would complain about that if Fallout 3 was an Elder Scrolls game, and I'm pretty sure Elder Scrolls fans wouldn't complain so much about Oblivion if it wasn't an Elder Scrolls game.

Again, I'm going on development and gameplay aspects, not on fallout 3 lore and story. In Oblivion, you're not in a wasteland of people struggling to survive, leaving more room for factions. In Fallout 3, there were only a few things that could be considered factions, and most of them wanted to kill you anyway.

As for quests, "Interesting" depends on what interests you. A quest to kill a bear in Oblivion might be more prefered over a quest to kill a Deathclaw in Fallout, despite the exact similar concept. Fallout and Oblivion had decent quests (I can't say the same for Oblivion's main quest, however), they just lacked in quantity, not quality.

Hehe, yeah. Actually the only reason I think Daggerfall is less generic than Oblivion is because Daggerfall actually was more "medieval fantasy" renaissance feel where as Oblivion just sort of felt much more like a cookie cutter fantasy. (Seriously. Go to a ren fest and compare it to anything you see in Oblivion. Cyrodiil is nothing like the actual medieval ages. If anything, its even more bland.)

But yeah, in the long run, I think Morrowind was the most high concept game in the series.

Which development and gameplay elements, out of curiosity? Two whole equipment slots is another thing I can think of. Honestly, Fallout 3 reeks of the things some Morrowind fans complain, sometimes to the extremes.