I gotta ask this about the Enclave. In Fallout 3, I felt like the Enclave-Brotherhood conflict was overplayed when it came to the main quest. I was wondering if anyone else did. I knew a lot about the Fallout Universe before the game, I've played Fallout 2 even. After playing Fable 2, which I felt was like a landmark to me for a cool RPG, I felt like there was something amiss in Fallout 3 like why my character should care about the Enclave. In fact, in the game, it never became aware of why one should hate the Enclave. If I knew nothing about Fallout I wouldn't have had a dislike of the Enclave, in fact, I would have felt for them they didn't do anything bad, really, it was the computer that was the maniac that wanted to kill all the Lone Wanderer's friends like Fawkes. Does anyone else feel like they were being overplayed as a "bad guy" in the main quest or am I wrong?

Fallout 3, suffered from some very bad writing, and lack of content. So to be honest, your correct when you say that your confused on why your character should hate the Enclave.

I wasn't expecting such a blunt and pessimistic answer. I wouldn't say that there was terrible writing, they regurgitated the Fallout usual really well, especially with the enemy as the Enclave paralleling, not exactly entirely, Fallout 2, down to getting to talk to the President where he proceeds to tell you everything, like in Fallout 2. But Fallout 2, apparently, wasn't received all that well either as it over exaggerated goofiness and took away from the original feel of Fallout. I don't feel there was a big difference, they both were about the story and the subtle possibility of everything, the retro-futurism, and the beating heart of any game the story and characters, which Fallout 3 stayed away from, it even, scandalous, had six scenes... that's dangerous. It really wasn't anything new, I can understand the creators of Fallout 3 not wanting to tempt fate and take on the canon, that is why for this game I decided to give it a pass on story. But the fourth has to be better, sure.

Lets discuss now, shall I ask, the Enclave. They have potential to recover it all, even ending plot holes, apparently the Enclave relationship to the player was actually a plot hole to. But, I really want to know, if there can be a better Enclave link to the player in a future game. I suppose, since no one seems disagree with me the Enclave were overplayed, that now that the Pandora box is open and the Enclave are out on the East coast, and according to Eden mainly based there after being focused away from the West coast, they needed to be better implemented into the story. I can't believe the entire Enclave was taken out at Raven Rock and at the battle for Project Purity, I won't believe that it's nefariousness is just at an end like that, right?

I didn't like the appearance of the Enclave, disregarding Fallout 2's ending.

And the worst thing is that you can co-operate with Eden, but Autumn? Nope, he HAS to die. For some reason. Nevermind that he was actually the only one in the Enclave who planned to rebuild the nation and Eden was the one who wanted to kill everyone. Try playing a evil character and helping Eden. Instead of being "The defeat of the evil Enclave at the hand of the good lone wanderer and his BOS pals", it ends up being "Autumn's last stand against Eden's last loyal soldier, coming to use Project Purity to kill everyone and using Lyons' Pride as his paws." Autumn is really the true hero of Fallout 3, but for some reason, he has to die.

Those were my exact feelings. I had no idea, about that ending, if I did I would have done things to lose karma because that fit with my vision of Autumn by the end. He was a wasted character to me, but they can fix that, you know, since there were different endings and they brought him back to life so many times anyways. He was a character I wanted to get to know as a good guy, but if that is true, thank god the writers saved him at least in one version, right? I mean he was thrown away so easily when I rushed into Project Purity, I felt like I should have been able to persuade him to get out of the way once he found out what my true purpose was and that wasn't to kill everyone, but to stop the release of FEV and turn on Project Purity. He reminded me more of the way the Brotherhood was framed as a faction in Fallout, tough skin but had a human heart, they could love just as much as the next stranger. The Brotherhood was wishy-washy and had way to much to say. But Autumn, he interested me as a character, but had fallen into corruption because he was "following orders" from an organization that had created him, however, he had a brain and a conscience that made him so deep as a character. Truly a human hero.

It was a Bethesda mistake he was killed. It could be easily rectified in a sequel if they just have him alive and the storyline having him as some kind of a hero getting all the credit of your father as he didn't die turning Project Purity on, as Fawkes the faithful Super Mutant or Charon the enslaved Ghoul did instead, rather he, your father, lived in anonymity with Sarah and had you... at least, I'm hopeful.

It should have been simpler than that since, really, what was he doing there? He wanted to stop the player from inputting FEV, why does he have to die at all? At least, like that? It makes no logical sense that he would attack an ally. Its a mental quandary. It frustrates me. It shouldn't have taken much to persuade him, but there is nothing like that. He should have had a more essential role in my mind then the guy who dies twice senselessly, since he should have been able to save the father, because he needed the code and he could, and himself, he had the magical Rad-X, for Christsakes! he could have saved the father and bypassed the son and turned the thing on, dies at the end for no reason other than to be a final boss. His death was a mechanism of an overplayed Enclave.

If by "but there is nothing like that", you mean that I'm mistaken about him living then I'll assure I'm correct. You can let him live - http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Augustus_Autumn... I personally didn't find it that difficult to persuade him, but I'd put alot into building my character's personality...

Nonetheless, it should have been a simple choice and his role in the game as a whole was at times underplayed in order to overplay the Enclave as sadistic and evil to be the "bad" guy.

Ok, I'll give you that.

the mainquest is indeed pretty lame but on the other hand if you don't focus on the lamquest there is plenty of other content

Yeah, I expected a new enemy in FO3 instead of the very same villainous organization with pretty much the same plan (wiping the impure out with modified FEV).

Without scratching the original canon how do you make a new enemy?

The Commonwealth was an interesting "evil", perhaps misunderstood, faction that seemed like it could have had a bigger role, something to expect rather than a giant robot doing all your business for you which wasn't fun at all.

The first step is to relocate the series, which Bethesda did. By Changing coasts Beth gave themselves a great deal of freedom to create new factions, creatures and enemies~ Without contradicting any previously established, as the game is set in a totally differnt location.

Sadly they passed up this opportunity, and chose not to utilise the freedom they had provided themselves with.

Although it is true that it was still done to prevent the Enclave from taking control of the purifier. So, in the end, they were , is that a good enough reason to oppose them?



There's the Commonwealth, of course, they could have played a bigger role in the game, alternatively, Bethesda could have introduced some other kind of new faction to serve as the enemy. I can't think of any already existing factions in the lore that could be the main antagonistic body, beyond those that already played a role in Fallout 3, but that doesn't mean Bethesda can't introduce new ones, it's not like the Enclave was ever mentioned in Fallout 1. In fact, Fallout 3 would have been the perfect oportunity to introduce new factions to the Fallout world, since before it was made, no one knew what groups existed in the D.C. area.

Hopefully for Fallout 4 Bethesda will decide to be original, so far of the east coast we've only seen the Capital Wasteland, so there's still lots of room there.

I find Enclave to be the actual good guy on Fallout. They are trying to reunite USA as it was before the War.

Player should be the one helping it to restore USA, not fighting it.

well this is rather the annoyance what do you want has villionous enemy the 'outcast', aliens from outer space, a invasion from european (russian) forces), chinese ghouls, and i'f that did happen, what would be the whining and complaints on this forum 'but the enclave are the evil bastards where are they', 'the game svcks i doesn't include enclave', or 'the enclave has only a minor part in the mainquest'...

i am sure in upcoming expansions, dlc's or a new game we will hear more of the commonwealth tech facility, maybe a android invasion ? (yeah but the game is a bladerunner rip off)

okay i must admit the enclave has been potrayed to 'evil' and 'dark' in my oppionion they should have been far more in the grey site than they are potrayed now.

Yes maybe but so far the Enclave has been potrayed in Fall Out 3 (not sure about Fall Out 2), they seem more like to have nazi-regiem the fev virus as there final solustion to get rid of all sentinent not in vault born lifeforms, including the son of James.

Not really, its debatable really, he was protecting the purifier from a barely understood enemy. The Lone Wanderer's father fought Super Mutants, not the Enclave, to keep it safe. How would he have known of the threat to the Wasteland the Enclave would be? I actually could have saw them as saviors of the project rather than the enemy and later in the storyline have their plot revealed to the player and have even a Darth Vader moment.



Yes, they haven't wasted all opportunities that are brought with the DC Wasteland, made things very vague, like who controlled the Super Mutants and why they existed on the East Coast at all as an organized force, to my understanding Super Mutants need a "central" brain to act organized against anything otherwise they scatter and without allegiances to each other. The Commonwealth was very mysterious, I kind of thought it was a construction of one of the northeastern commonwealths, that had replaced states. You have the NCR afterall playing a huge role on the west coast. It also makes sense since you had NCR in the West as a very tolerant and free state, to have an archetype of the NCR on the East coast totally opposite and rising in prominence. Lets be honest, it would be better than guys dressed up like football players who think they are Romans.

I always knew that the Enclave was going to be the bad guy just and I've never played the other Fallout games. What threw me though was that there wasn't much buildup for them until they showed up at the Jefferson Memorial. When I played I didnt understand why James sacrificed himself to keep them from getting Project Purity when we didnt even really know what their intentions were at the time. It would have been better if there had been some sort of previous mission where the Enclave had already been established as the enemy or at least had them explain what they were going to do with the Project.

Umm...not really. In terms of villains, Van Buren would've had Presper. There was a definite trend of a different villain every time. Personally, I never regarded the Enclave as the ultimate evil in the Wasteland, because every couple of decades someone new comes along to muck things up. I was surprised at what they were doing in FO3 at all, and if they hadn't appeared, I wouldn't have missed them.

The Outcasts were an odd sort, it made sense they would disagree with Lyons, I didn't quite understand why they wouldn't be considered by the West BoS to be the natural successors in the region to Lyons unless he was better at politics and power plays than his bleeding heart character revealed. I mean, he was an Elder and they always seemed to be playing political games quite often, so it isn't far fetched he was astute at it. I could have foreseen a much better storyline centered around the Outcasts, the enemy within whats more human than that, that saw them as the "bad" guys. They did threaten the stability of the region anyways, dissolving the Brotherhood in its actual strength, though with [censored] like Liberty Prime walking around like it "pwns" everything, I felt like Brotherhood weakness was underplayed except in dialogue, because everyone knows that the Brotherhood "kiks majr assez w00t!"

It would be better if the Outcast, in Fallout 4, played a bigger part rather than an Enclave that is cooperative. I started to get this idea from the game that, on the spectrum of good, evil, pure, and corrupt, the DC Brotherhood was pure and good and the Outcast were good, they had a worthy purpose after all to follow orders and all and make saving people secondary due to loyalty to a singular cause that was for a "greater" good, and corrupt, their just inhuman at the same time after all and don't seem to have a conscience. They, in my mind, along with the Commonwealth could be natural successors to the Master and the Enclave, misunderstood but at the same time clearly inhuman.

Lyons probably controlled all contact channels with the West Coast Elders. By the time FO3 takes place, the Outcasts are trying to establish contact with the West Coast, but are not succesful.



Why would they need to scratch the original canon? They relocated the game to the other side of the country, and both the Master and the Enclave in FO2 were, at least during the time the games took place, pretty much local villains, not ones that spanned the whole of the United States. They could have easily created new factions of comparable strength on the East Coast if they wanted. In fact, the Institute (Commonwealth is the area, Institute is the faction) would make a better FO3 villain than the rehashed Enclave. Maybe they would replace your Dad (and some other key people in the wasteland) with an android copy in the middle of the game, without your knowledge, to gain a foothold in the Capital Wasteland with their obedient human-looking spies?

ooh 'cuse me

That is true. But it couldn't take them much more time after Fallout 3 for them to establish contact, it would be interested to see the West Coast step up in the region on the side of the Outcasts in an attempt to 'break the back' of a rebelling Lyons.



Androids are a very scary concept, anyone could be the enemy preprogrammed to kill you once it gains your trust and the trust of those around you, in fact, that sounds quite familiar. Oh, yes, isn't that the entire plotline behind Battlestar Galactica, I guess, if it worked to make that show cool and popular, why not now?

The Enclave, however, does span the entire country.

Anyways, I do agree, the Institute interested me more in it being the Commonwealth of New England, that is what it would be called wouldn't it? It would be poetic justice for Massachusetts to finally be the bad guy and not always saving the day like it has historically. The backwards 'Railroad' was entertaining.