Wrong.

The role playing mechanics in New Vegas are vastly superior. Vastly.

So hold on, just so we're clear the bolded part is you stating you'd rather reload after ONE miss than live with an RNG result that by the laws of statistics is likely to not happen twice in a row? That's really petty and makes me think you really just don't have the patience for turn-based game play. Which is fine, but don't act like it's a massive problem when it seems more like a patience issue on your end. :/

No, Bethesda and Bioware struggle at pulling it off. Try CDPR...they pull of moral ambitiousness very well. Bioware only got good really with Mass Effect 3, when they started punishing Paragon players while making Renegade far less extreme and more practical.

Wrong.

They are just better not vastly and not why i bought New Vegas!. i bought it because it was an open world game made with Bethesda's engine. so not that important to me.

Yeah i like The Witcher, but no. It is not the same as Oblivion, Skyrim, Kotor, Dragon Age Origins. These games are just superior in their gray hero aspect. Personal preference yet again.

Yes, i agree with this. The general tone Fallout 3 and what has been shown of 4 too is similar with Borderlands to me. I mean, isn't Liberty Prime and the sailing ship with rocket engines on equal level with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vvNifkhvAw?

i dont really care about if the game is isometric or first person, i feel FO3 (and NV to a lesser extent) was too limited, there weren't enough options in quests and general situations. i never really got into FO 1+2 but there should be so much more to a good rpg than a decently built world

It's interesting to see people's view on the games in this thread. Personally I'd put them like this (best to worst):

Fallout: 2 (5/5)
Fallout: New Vegas (4/5)
Fallout: 1 (3.5/5)
Fallout: 3 (3/5)

I guess it shows how different people experience their games.

If half of these kids playing GTAV today sat down with GTA London 1969, I doubt they would agree it is the same core experience. Why have a story-less arcade rampage when you can join an online golfing crew? I know.. probably another snide stretch, but things change over 15 years. Point and click is basically dead and everything is forced into a neat little genre. It svcks. But the gaming industry is booming and Fallout is no longer the secret gem that you once knew it to be. It is now exploited for mass appeal and that has to hurt. I feel for you, I prefer classic controls and static camera in my old Resident Evil games, but the (m)asses took that away from me. Now my green herbs glow, float, and spin in a game I can barely stand..

But.. I love Bethesda's Fallouts so far. And I believe it when Todd said they spent a lot of time on player choice and overlapping stories. I really hope it is more of the story choice like the original.

Wut?

Goodsprings and Jacobstown breed Bighorners.

Novac has a small brahmin pen.

Boomers have a brahmin pen.

I'm fairly certain I've seen NCR's Sharecroppers also have some brahmin pens.

I remember a brahmin pen that had been abandoned but showed clear signs that someone had been keeping brahmin there.

And then there are the abandoned farms to the north of Vegas, they weren't always abandoned.

And then we also have all of the vegetables that people grow in Westside, Sharecroppers, Boomers, Goodsprings and IIRC there is even a small patch in Freeside by the water pump.

So again, wut?

Fallout 3 had 2 brahmin pens and active farms.

One was up at Republic Of Dave, the other was at Arefu.

And the one by Arefu, IIRC, got abandoned after the owner left or died or whatever and the brahmin die off, so it don't count if I remember correctly.

There was a mention of people trying to farm up by some abandoned house but they never succeeded and either died or left, so it don't count.

And Rivet City is trying to produce clean vegetables and they have some success at it. Not enough of a success to feed the entire wastes though, so it don't count.

And finally, Point Lookout supplies the wasteland with punga fruits to eat.

It's not 'just' about brahmin. FNV shows far far more farms and brahmin/bighorner pens.

Hell, doesn't the lake have fish in it?

And what about all of the survival ingredients you can find in the wild to eat?

Only thing growing in Fallout 3 is mutfruit, which isn't exactly commonplace.

And finally, the mojave has clearly established that trade happens with areas outside of it.

But I don't remember anything in Fallout 3 saying that food came from the outside.

So we 'can' ask "what do they eat?" because there simply isn't enough food being produced to support the population of CW, civilized or otherwise.

Clearly maths has failed you. If I have a 90% chance to hit, otherwise known as a 9/10 success rate, I shouldn't have to reload because I should have hit my target FIRST TIME. This again is a broken archaic system. It's not like Baldurs Gate, where you can explain a failed hit as a parry, or civ where you fail because your unit has 5 strength and theirs has 10.

If someone told you that your lottery ticket had a 90% chance of being the winning ticket, would you change your ticket?

Well, 90% isn't 100% there is a chance to fail if little. In the modern days it is more common to associate success in a game with player reflexes because of the immediate satisfaction; in the past instead luck was an important factor in games, especially RPG ones due to the pen and paper influences ( where you actually rolled die ).

Of course even in a game where luck is a factor a clever strategy can minimize the luck influence in the outcome. That was the core of turn based "strategic" combat.

That said I don't dislike the FO3 approach in combat, since VATS would give me plenty of freedom for clever battle resolution.

Finally, as already said by someone else, what is missing from FO3 ( and probably from FO4 ) is not turn based combat but a nice narration with dark humor, credible npcs and story branches.

On me: My first fallout was FO1, my first bethesda game was Daggerfall

90% is not 100%.

If you can't handle the mishaps coming from those percentile checks, I suppose you must reload then. But you also must know that it's not the end of the world if every check isn't a success (even if it happens with the one lacking percent), not even in XCOM. And if you self impose a harsh houserule (if that's what you meant with permadeath) that the game can't respond to, that's on you, not the game or its rules.

Well that's for sure, but what meant was that the game plays towards the same goals with similiar means. GTA is still about robbing cars, fast driving, roadrage, crime and mayhem in an actionpacked bag that is dependent on the players dexterity. The case for Fallout is different so the snark misses the point.

That's certainly the case. On both accounts.

It's always been the big puzzle... Why take something to continue it, if the intent is to... not really continue it but to turn it to something else completely. Things change in 18 years, that's for sure, and nobody expects them not to. How they change, however...

Would be nice if that was the case.

What is "fallout enough"?

You said the originals should have no influence and that you want a Bethesda game instead. Obsidian is not Bethesda and New Vegas was both created by those who made Fallout 2 and was heavily influenced by the originals (which you say should not be the case).

No, it's not using it as an excuse. IMO it's a vastly superior RPG, sticks closer to Fallout and is a good sequel to the series. I also felt New Vegas was better in all fronts including world building (since the world actually makes sense, unlike Fallout 3).

Is your name AwesomePossum which is who I directed it towards by saying @Awesome?

Huh.. Very telling.

New Vegas was Fallout enough for me. I wish Obsidian were at the helm: Open world Bethesda games, but resembling Fallout and being a good RPG (my opinion).

Edit: Lol at not having a 100% to succeed and calling the game a failure because of it (not directed at you Apocalypse).

Not to parrot, but really mate? 9/10 isn't 10/10, just because the odds are stacked in your favor at a 90% success rate that doesn't negate the statistically small chance of failure. Same goes o 99.9999% or 1%. If it's not 100% don't expect to always succeed. :/

-I never said anything about bighorners.

-Novac has three brahmin.

-Boomers actually have none, there's even a conversation with the kid running the museum where you can talk about it, and how they get nutrients normally found in meat.

-Sharecroopers have none also.

-The farms north of Vegas show no post-war use beyond that of raiders. Unless you mean the one farm inside that house to the north of Vegas, which was part of the Underpass settlement which was cut, and thus, is no longer canon like the settlement.

-Westside, Sharecroppers, and the small bit in in Freeside next to the water pump, all operate on the water pipe system the NCR built/repaired. Which leaves the question of what did these people eat for the 200 years before the NCR showed up and fixed them to allow farms to exist in the first place, and why no one else was able to do it before the NCR.

Fallout 3 on the other hand had

-4 brahmin being raised in the pen outside the Regulator HQ

-3 being raised in the pen behind the garage in Canterbury Commons.

-3 being raised in the pen in Arefu.(and no, the one in Arefu isn't abandoned, they just keep the Brahmin down there since they live on an overpass and there's nothing for them to eat up there)

-2 Brahmin being raised in the pen at The Republic of Dave.

-2 being raised in the pen outside the Charnel House raider camp.

-1 each being raised at Megaton, The Temple of the Union, Paradise Falls, and Girdershade, the latter two actually having pens. Megaton's and the Temple's just sit outside.

-Mutfruit is entirely commonplace, it can be found in the merchant inventories of every food seller in every major city at all times, as well as the inventory of Doc Hoff with equal frequency.

-People like Quinn, and Tobar mentioning they go all the way from The Commonwealth down to the Broken Banks and as far west at The Pitt for trade.

Also,any attempt to survive on the sparse plant-life growing naturally near the various towns in NV would have quickly resulted in any nearby supplies being quickly depleted. We can see in-game however that this is not the case, so they obviously did not do such.

So tell me, what did the people of the Mojave eat for the 200ish years before the NCR came along to give them everything?

*facepalm* Ok, lets try this again. If a doctor tels you that the operation you are about to undergo has a 90% chance of success, and then you died on the operating table. Do you honestly think your family would shake their heads and go "that [censored] 10%"? Your chance of success is HIGHER than of failure.Way higher. You would be successful first time because thats what a 90% success rate means.

As for the story, you cannot have it all. You can't have a massive open world and an engaging story that lasts 200 hours and a massive crafting system and 30 companies with 12 deep and meaningful quests and a backstory that wins an emmy. You have to pick one strength in a game and do your best with the other features or the entire experience becomes lackluster.

Er what? Please note how the bolded and underlined parts contradict one another. Pay special note to the capitalized portions.

edit: Again just because you have a higher chance of success than failure doesn't mean you don't have the chance of failure. That's literally how probability and math works. 9/10 isn't 10/10 so don't get upset when it doesn't behave like 10/10.

No.. No it doesn't. Don't they teach ya'll fractions, decimals and percentages in school?

9/10 =/= 10/10. 90% chance of success also means 10% chance of failure. 10% chance of failure means that 1 in 10 times YOU WILL FAIL.

Just because it's a 90% chance of success does NOT mean it will succeed on the first try 100% of the time, nor should it.

Bethesda should be able to introduce new thing's if they want to make the game more enjoyable or different regardless of the originals is my opinion, and you've just said why you think NV is vastly better by linking it to the original game's which is very telling as well, not sure what you mean't by your comment,

To me Fallout 3 and NV are similar, other than story and lore, we are all allowed our own opinion's whether you like it or not.

Apologies, i thought the comment about bug's was for me.

Well, prior to House and NCR they were pretty much tribals and/or clans. So either they farmed or they lived like hunter gatherers because the Mojave supports the hunter gatherer life-style.

As to the things I was wrong one, like I said, "IIRC", I really need to avoid these debates when it's been so long since I played both of them.

I move we rename this thread Fractions 101 since that's starting to dominate the replies.

Never mind, it's fairly obvious it ain't gonna sink it. Reread my post by the way, it doesn't say it's vastly superior because it's more like the originals. I also implore you to read my previous posts where I started with Fallout 3. Your logic is incredibly flawed.

You're right we are. My point which I stated, is that you don't want them to take from the originals, which New Vegas did. To me, New Vegas was vastly superior to Fallout 3 on all fronts, despite taking from the originals. You greatly enjoyed the game despite it taking from the originals.

Notice it's not because it takes after the originals, but that it just is.

Wow, Just wow.