This is why I play destruction.. Makes fights like that challenging and fun instead of just running from mob to mob 2-shorting each one.

However, I have to admit the Orchender fight is ridiculous (only time I had to turn difficulty down from master to adept because I couldnt kill him past his heals no matter what).

teh bolded part Man im tired, going to bed 2 am close

I think you just dont want to admit to yourself dmg betwen non crafted archery - meele - destro is the same no matter what level. Its just that becuase destro drains magic you think you cant kill anything before your mana runs out, so you think the constant dmg isnt the same or close. If your not running naked as a mage and use a robe your mana drain goes down and even without it you can still dish the same amount of pain liek the meele and archery build to kill an enemy.

It not about doing unlimited attacks with meele,archery or destro becuase the HP and number of enemies is finite and you will be able to kill them all no mather what build you play.



yeah 3 second casting LS doing 112 dmg >>>> 1 sec casting 200 dmg thunderbolt.

I didnt know nearly, was the same as every. Reading fail?



Which still doesn't even compare to what the other damage dealing skills can do.

You forgot something : increasing your archery/melee skills alone improves base weapon damage, on top of the +100% bonus from perks.

At level 100 archery with the 5 basic perks, a base Daedric bow does 57 damage. Without enchants you can get up to 3 armor parts enchanted with +40% archery damage. And you can get x3 sneak attacks with not too much effort in Sneak skill. With good arrows that's a 540 damage hit.

Destruction is great on 1-20lvls on master difficulty.

I dont using overpowered specs like enchanting and smithing. I using destruction to slow down enemy if they switching to me instead of astronach, for damage u can switch to bow or melee weapons if enemys will go for your astronach.

Yes i know im not 50lvl,but still i having fun while im not 50lvl,when i gone hit 50 ill go melee+conjuration or archery+other mage spells if they dont fix destruction in next patches

Thanks.

Irrelevant. Destruction is gimped. Magic in general is gimped, especially compared to previous games. The more threads on the subject, the better, because a single thread with 200 replies won't get Bethesda's attention nearly as much as the thousands that currently litter the forums.

Compared to the other forms of doing damage, destruction is one of the weakest out there, especially at later levels. There was mention of 50 being the "soft-cap", but TES games aren't supposed to have endings. You're supposed to play the game past 50. Magic is described as being immensely powerful all throughout the lore and in-game, so why do we have to rely on crutches like potions and enchantments to even come close to the power of regular weapons?

I don't think hes including the base damage that arrows themselves do either, in regards to archery.


In the end, its all about the scaling of NPCs. Why do their destruction spells scale, yet ours don't? That pretty much sums up that something fishy is going on. A few oversights and bad design decisions result into destruction weaknesses at higher levels. Its not just one thing, but multiple aspects that "gimps" it compared to other damage dealing skills. And since I am a lore hound, Ill repeat again, that lore wise destruction is more powerful than any of the other stuff.

No... again the mobs are staggered and cannot fight back. You can waltz right up to anything you damn well please and call down enough lightning to make Zeus himself jealous. You are invincible and unstoppable with just destruction and enchanting. Nothing can touch you unless you stop casting.

But we arent talking about enchants and sneak attack just plain one on one dmg in the face. So I got it wrong by 17 dmg.

57x2+25 = 114+25=139 dmg <<< 200 dmg thunderbolt
Nearly one shooting everyone Yeah its NEARLY after the edit, must have missed it because of that I am sorry.
Edit. The arrow is counted as a deadric arrow

So, Destruction is now also about utility? Good one. There's also no Destruction potion that ups your damage by 162%, the average is 20% and vendors sometimes sell those that are up to 35%. If he is seriously suggesting maxing out Alchemy just to create an extremely limited duration potion, then that's even more fail than suggesting to exploit Enchanting.|

Everytime a topic like this is created, the Bethesda apologist, elitist trolls jump on board and act like everyone else is clueless, and then list all of the prerequisites needed to make a crappy tree barely function, while conveniently ignoring the fact that it's still the weakest for damage compared to everything else.

Being "weaker" is fine too, but the degree that it's currently at is not acceptable at all. Please ignore the damage that NPC mages do compared to the player, while most physical NPCs do comparable damage as the player or less unless it's a boss. Yeah, but that would be using LOGIC, and that's too much work.

Does that mean without enchanting I can't do that?

Also, at what enchanting level can I get the -100% magicka cost enchantment? And does it require a Grand Soul Gem?

@Erandur
You never even counter my valid points. You claim something that you cannot prove. You troll my context.
You then state your opinion is fact.

You're not likely to sway many with that kind of logic sir.
I've read all your posts, I was simply informing you what an enormous jerk you're acting like by
calling people that disagree with you names. There is obviously a lapse in the way you perceive yourself.

Which is still a spam fest. I need to spam expert and even master sells to kill higher level enemies, or mobs? No, it shouldn't be like that. The other damage dealing skills are not like that, neither should destro.

I think he means enchants on items found out in the world, not actually enchanted using the skill. If destruction didn't use any enchants at all, either through the skill or through gear with enchants already on them, it would run out of magicka in about 2-3 dual casts. At 100 destruction with the -50% perk incinerate costs 88 magicka. 88 x 2.4 = 211.2 magicka per dual cast. 2.4 is the increase in magicka when dual casting. So yeah, 2 casts. Melee and archery without enchants can go forever.

With enchants, destsruction can cast for longer but then you also have to give archery +120% damage, because you can get that without using enchanting, or 160% damage wth enchanting. Either way, it beats out destruction big time.

You actually have to have a point, for me to counter it. Its already been proven, in multiple threads how and why destro isn't to scale as the other damage dealing skills. I didnt call anybody specifically a name. Again, actually read. I don't need to ":sway" people. People that are in the know, know that there's a problem. I don't care about the opinion of the defenders, they obviously have no idea what they are talking about since its been proven in numerous threads that destruction is comparatively weak.

If I was talking about the enchanting skill, I'd be using 4 parts with 40% or more. You can find in loots and merchants the 3 enchants I mentioned. Well, you need to be higher level to get them though.

Besides, without such enchants for destruction cost reduction, you cannot cast more than 3-4 expert spells before you are out of magicka so it's fair to count them both

I'll say it again. Magic, in my opinion, is an element of combat based on Utility. That is why there are many schools of said art- like having many schools of combat (archery, one-handed, two-handed, block).
Two elements (lightning and frost) aren't even primarily by design focused on dealing nothing but damage- they focus and split damage to other aspects such as magicka and stamina.
You can play the game and literally dominate with any build- just because you are having trouble doesn't mean other people are. Magic is VERY potent in the right hands.

I've listed multiple points (repeated of course). You said I never read your post (which wasn't true), apparently you never read mine (which you just proved).

You just need to level more and look other vendors than only whiterun alchemist and your find nice destro pots.
Yeah I propose using alchemy and I see it upsets you, but why dosnt it upset you to use alchemy/smithing/enchanting for your meele archer builds ?
The ingridient for the pot are easy to find and even buy and you dont need to spam the pot every [censored] fight you encounter.

Its easy to troll, after all your using 3 skills to not svck at dmg dealing while being a meele or archer or else the meele archer scaled enemies would deal more dmg than you and you would have to start a "meele/archery dmg svcks ass, it dosnt scale with level" thread.

I'm not having trouble. We are not talking about "Magic", we are talking about one damage dealing skill of magic, the only direct damage dealing skill (other than a few restoration spells that damage dead), and that's destruction. Still don't see your point.

Hey nerds!

Why don't ya cast a spell to take you back home to Cry-odiil!

Ahahahahahaha!

/goes back to The Companions hall for another mead

That is what I am referring to. Elements such as lightning and frost are two of three major factors in the destruction skill tree.
Fire is not all that destruction is cooked up to be- as there are TONS of examples of people using lightning as the base for
damage, when it has another major function tied with it that separates it from "raw damage".

Edited for clarity.

The thing is we were talking about not having crafting skills and not using enchant or pots for more dmg. To be fair my mage didnt use any enchanted gear and pots himself.
Yeah its true I wont be able to spam thunderbolt much but were talking about nearly one shooting enemies so even with lmited supply of mana I still dish more dmg than the archer so I should kill the target before my mana runs out.

So we both can kill the target without using enchanted gear and pot and its gonna take us the same time if were at base level of our gear.
See we both can do it without any outside help but we can get better with using other skills and gear improving our dmg dealing weapon of choice.

does anyone hold anyhope of this being fixed in a patch? I am on console so mods aren't an option, I was looking forward to creating a destruction focused mage but I probably won't bother now or if i do I'll have to exploit the game to make it viable beyond 40+ (which I don't like doing).

Still don't see your point. Lightning is just as bad. Coupled with the fact that destro spells for NPCs do level. Why do they level and not ours? You'd really assume a level 50+ mage that has all perks in Destruction is only using fire? Where would you get such an assumption from?

In master I need more than 10 casts of the expert spells to down some somewhat common high level draugr. The fact you cannot do that with a full mana bar IS important.

Besides, it's extremely biased on your part to say you compare them "without enchants" because there's no enchants that increase magic damage but there are for archery and they aren't that uncommon so you SHOULD be using them already.