Yeah, I just don't believe he'll free them. I think he's deluded himself into thinking he'll do this, but when it comes down to it, he won't. Or his raider henchmen won't allow him to.


Because this gives Ashur all the power. We don't know if there will be any side effects to the cure. I'm already remolding the wasteland in DC with the purifier, so it's not like everyone's screwed if the Pitt remains uninhabitable.

I think it's an ends vs. means debate, and I tend to side with means, more so since I don' trust Ashur.

Exactly, why would he lie to his daughter?

He believes he'll die before she's old enough to understand what he did and so he took the time to explain it, believing that by the time she was old enough he would be dead but his empire and cure would remain.


So you think he's not completely there mentally? Have you talked to him because he seems to be the sanist person in F3.

His henchmen are all afraid of him because in lore power armor is indestructable against pistols and assault rifles which makes him god-like in the Pitt. They wouldn't turn on anybody wearing that armor.


The Purifier in DC is worthless, there is the entire West Coast with clean water everywhere with factories and electiricty to go around.

The Lone Wanderer's mark is heavy on the CW but light in history unless they build a permenant empire.


It's called history, if you look at it as an event in history awful things happened to many innocent people that ended up helping humanity as a whole in the end and this is a perfect example of it.

I am more ends than means, if something has a good enough point to it but hurts people then I will side with it.

This has a better lasting effect than instant one. Those people will die or become trogs anyway until the end of time unless Ashur makes this cure.

I totally agree with this.

I think he's deluding himself with an "I'll make up for all of this evil later" mentality. Not that he's insane. He's similar to Caesar in NV.


His second in command isn't that afraid of him if you listen to their dialogue. Does he sleep with his armor on? Didn't he already get knocked out once? He's not god-like, just armored.


If you think the purifier is worthless because of other fallout lore you should take that up with Bethesda's writers.

It's the basis for the entire plot of FO3.


Sometimes things worked out for the best. Sometimes they didn't. That doesn't mean it was the only way to go about doing them. It was just the only way that was tried. May not even have been the best way.

You're putting your faith in Ashur and his good intentions. Maybe it will work out. Maybe it won't. I happen to lack faith in him.


Or they could just leave the Pitt and go back to where they lived before they were enslaved. . .

Who says the cure is guaranteed to work without side effects anyway?

I agree that he is comparable to Caesar but unlike Caesar Ashur doesn't plan to let slavery last long after he dies.

Caesar's plan is to unite the wastes as much as possible before he dies and make a strong long lasting nation or if it splits up nations.


Who, Werhner? That crazy anarchist isn't afraid of death, all he wants is to take over the Pitt for personnal glory and power which he fails at.
I think he would have trusted guards while he slept.
And he was seen as godlike because nobody saw him get knocked out, all they did was see him drag himself out of a pile of rubble that would've crushed a man without power armor.


I know, it's kind of sad. The purifier would be obselete if F3 followed already established Fallout lore.

And if you think about it the Lone Wanderer's the bad guy. Autumn has the same goal as Lyons but instead of telling Lyons that and getting them to peacefully work together you just keep your mouth shut and kill dozens of people to accomplish nothing.


For many cases it was the only way to help us advance unfortunantly.

And I feel this is one of them. To keep the Pitt strong and to keep the scientists safe while they make the cure Ashur has to keep slaves to work in the Mill.

It's terrible but it will make humanity immune to radiation.


But I don't see a reason to lack faith in him.

And if it doesn't work, though I may sound like an evil jerk saying this, the price of a few wastelanders who had already been caught by slavers isn't very high.

He has a noble goal and the means to reach it, he just has to do some terrible things along the way. That is one of my favorite kinds of characters because they always have inner conflicts with themselves about morality.


To what? Be killed by wild life, get caught by slavers again, or, maybe, etch out a living before kicking the bucket?

There is little to nothing for them at home. It may be terrible in the Pitt but what is happening there will benefit everybody eventually.


They will test it and perfect it.

It's not like they have a limited amount of time or anything.

I've agreed with everything you've said so far.

I wonder what happened to the Pitt writers. They actually made a complicated grey vs. grey plot with interesting characters. Then Bethesda went back to normal. Still love thier games, story just svcks.

Hopefully those guys were just busy working on Fallout 4.

The writing was fantastic.

It was a difficult choice but I prefer long term improvement over instant 'salvation' where they would just go back to being normal wastelanders or become trogs if they're not Ashur's workers (slaves now).

Yeah same here, everything you said made sense. And I always liked Ashur's goal way more than "Yay we kidnapped a baby its all gonna be k now". Even though with Wernher in charge of the Pitt I'd even doubt that.

What has Ashur accomplished in the two decades he's ruled over Pittsburgh NOTHING. The Pitt exists to make weapons for the raiders who then capture supplies and slaves so the Pitt can contiune to produce weapons. For twenty years Ashur's Empire has done nothing but brought misery and death to the people of the wasteland. His raiders pillage the wasteland bringing in slaves and supplies to feed a machine that in-sofar only seems to feed its self. The Pitt produces weapons which supply the raiders with the tools they need to steal food, slaves and other supplies to support the manufacturing. Its a cycle that does nothing, if the Steel Mill didn't exist the rest of the wasteland would be better off.

His baby girl and the promise of a cure has only existed for a few months. Where's the justification for the two decades of slavery, abuse and raiding up until his daughter was born. We also have no reason to believe either side has a chance of developing any kind of cure from Marie. I sided with the slaves, because they wanted to be free, because for two decades Ashur's army had been a cancer upon the wasteland pillaging communites for supplies and slaves. So I freed the slaves and ended a kingdom built on suffering, destruction and death. I consider the baby a red herring there is no reason to believe either side is capable of developing a cure for the trogladyte degeneration. The baby is only a few months old what if their wrong about the extent of her resistances?

So from where I sit Ashur's long term plans are bull. For twenty years the Pitt has only existed by capturing slaves and stealing supplies. He claims he one day wants to free the slaves or that its for there own good. But a lot of slave owners and tyrants in history have made similar claims. One day he may try and free the slaves and probably be killed by his own men who don't want to change the status quo. So, I killed a tyrant and brought down an empire built on pillaging and slavery that in two decades had only accomplished slavery and pillaging.

People talk about Ashur's long term goals but I've yet to see evidence he's made any progress towards it. Two decades and nothing good to show about it. You want a cure for the troglodyte degeneration syndrome? Abandon Tha Pitt let the settlement die and the people disperse and find other places to live. The ruins of the city would be a grand place for ghouls to make a home.

He hasn't ruled the Pitt for twenty years, he's spent twenty years taking over the Pitt.

His raiders aren't kidnapping slaves, they're selling weapons to slavers in exchange for slaves. The raiders were/are scavenging the city for more metal.


They have done numberess tests on samples of her DNA and it always resists radiation and radiation caused diseases like ghoulification and turning into a trog.

As for the enslaving and working for decades I believe he says his original goal was to just make the Pitt the only industrial city/empire on the East Coast but that all changed with the birth of his daughter. Now he can also spread a cure aswell.


So you'd rather kill an empire which could save the east coast from its anarchic state of zero progress instead of forgiving a man for his sins when he is trying to develope a cure for all radiation-based diseases?

What matters more in the long term? That is what is going to affect people more.

People have enslaved others throughout history and since the Great War reset the clock of progress good and bad is different in the wasteland.

Ashur had and has a far nobler goal than everybody else who enslaved people in history.

Rockopolis was destoryed a long time ago its population sold off to supply The Pitt with labor. He's been at this a long time with nothing to show for it.
And the raiders don't scavange metal, the slaves do the raiders keep them inline and beat them for fun. It doesn't really matter if they buy the slaves or capture them personally. Taking out the biggest buyer for slaves on the east coast would mean the slavers would capture less slaves as they have no one to tell them to.


Long term there may be no cure, long term Ashur and people like him are KEEPING anarchic state of zero progress on the east coast. Rockopolis was a thriving and safe community before it was wiped out to supply The Pitt with slaves. How many other communties DIED to supply The Pitt with labor? How many more will die before a cure is developed(if it ever happens) Thats all assuming Ashur's underlings don't murder him if he eventually tries to free the slaves. Which I think is a very real possibility.

The way I see it long-term the Pitt provides no benefit, there is no reason to believe Sandra is a more capable scientist then Medea. There is no reason to believe either person can bring any benefit by studying Marie's unique biology. Long-term they'd probably need to attract a whole team of scientists to develop this so Ashur and Sandra aren't necessary to the equation of a cure. And sense they aren't necessary there is no reason to allow the slaving empire to exist. If I had the option to take Marie back to DC and intrust her to Dr. Li I would, if I had the option to destroy the steel mill so that only thing left was work on the cure I would.

But I don't have those options, and sense I have no reason to believe Sandra is up to the task alone I see no reason to allow Ashur and his raiders to live.

To be frank, I'm not against slavery in Fallout and am not about to cry a river over it (like some people who think killing is all fine and dandy but slavery isn't). I'm more interested in keeping The Pitt how it is, and how it could be in the future, rather than see it all go down the drain with the slaves at the helm. I couldn't care less about them to be honest. I side with Ashur every time. He's one of my favourite characters in Fallout 3. I like what he is doing in The Pitt, to some extent, and believe things will only get done if he continues.

The one time I sided with Wernher I regretted it. It basically just removed the raiders and gave Wernher a boost to his ego thinking he's now running the show. But that was his plan all along. Maybe siding with the slaves could be worth it to some if things actually changed, but they don't and they won't. The only difference now is that they aren't "slaves". But they are still "workers". They continue working in the Mill (I believe Wernher even comments that you should spread the word of The Pitt so you can get more workers in the Mill), and will continue dying for the metal. And once the raiders and Ashur are gone, if the slavers get wind of what happened (which they will when their customers don't show up for the next slave deal) then you can bet they will march into The Pitt in force and recapture all the slaves.

And I hope people (especially those who preach the ends don't justify the means) who have a problem (moral or otherwise) with Ashur and his cronies, also hate/kill Wernher as well. He was Ashur's right hand man after all. Imagine what he would have done to get that position! He's the worst of the worst, and uses the Lone Wanderer for his own gain while crying the slaves' sob story. The man leading the slaves was once the one beating them down, what sort of joke is it that.

If anyone seriously thinks siding with Wernher is a "the slaves can be happy and free" ending, then they are quite delusional.

Rockopolis was, and is, a hollowed out rock where those who are wanted by raiders, slavers, or any other dangerous people would chill out.

With a comunity like that odds are you will be caught rather quickly by one of them.

Where did it say they are the biggest buyers? I know they buy a lot but I'm not sure they're the biggest.


Really?
There is no progress in the wasteland, whether threatened by wildlife, raiders, slavers, or nothing at all the East Coast isn't advancing except in the Pitt.

People are building guns and making ammunition, actually creating instead of scavenging. They are making progres whether you like their means or not.

Rockopolis was a hideout as I said before.

I doubt it. They're still afraid of him. And with their numbers they'll be afraid to speak out against him in fear that the rest will turn on him.


After checking the wiki I found the Midea has been living in the Pitt and leading the slaves for at least a few years and Sandra has a scientific background of some sort that involves mutations. Which is more qualified to be a scientist researching a cure, a slave or somebody with some sort of scientific background that involves mutation?

Dr. Li is a scientist who researches water and food, what good would she be at making a cure for radiation?

So because you doubt Sandra with little to no reason to you just want to kill her husband and take her child away?


This.

I'm a firm believer in the ends justify the means. I saw that in the Pitt, if he actually carries out his plans it would probably be the best thing that ever happened to the East Coast.

Agreed oh and he didn't go straight to slaving and using raiders.

Here is the official backstory:

I completed it at lvl 7 too and i went with ashur. I think he is doing it right.

I'm never comfortable with my choice in the end, and it's what makes the Pitt great for me. But usually I side with Ashur.

I usually side with Ashur, but I think I've enjoyed my first play through's choice the most. Steal the Cure only to find out the conditions of Werner's laboratory and bring the Cure back to her mom. Then demanding Ashur release the slaves, of course refusing and then my first character proceeding to 'splode his armor and leaving the whole mess behind, only to bring teddy bears back once in a while.

I totally agree.

Ashur is offensive, moronic, hypocritical and full of crap. He has absolutely zero intention of doing what he says. Which is pretentious bullcrap anyway.
It's too good for him, sitting pretty, counting in the cash, ruining countless lives in a vicious, never ending circle.
And the Marie thing, blah, it's a gimmick he uses.
Before Marie he just had his bullcrap to pretend he was good with.
Distribute the cure to the poor bastards they captured, bought and doomed to die? Yeah right, not a chance in hell.

Actually finding a cure for troglatism from Marie? I never believed it.
A few cures for radiation etc, yeah. The slaves whip up a serum in days. Which proves Ashur is full of crap about not having anything and going to give it to the poor bastards they have caught.

The best thing for everyone and the world would be if the stinking hellhole was vacated completely, by force if nessery, and destroyed or left to ghouls.
Ghouls would probabely have a sensible plan for the area, too. They might, shock horror, actually be able to get other ghouls to work there, by their own free will!

The steel mill brings nothing but pain and misery, and helps no one. It would be better off destroyed.

How the frag can anyone say Ashur is good?! If he was good, he would have got the hell out of there and let the hellhole die out. Or found another way to run the damn steel mill that did'nt involve deliberately mass murdering thousands of people for 20 years.