The 6 plagues of TES

Post » Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:27 pm

I slightly disagree with 5. I would rather prefer Daggerfall's system where limitations are based on your affiliation. In Skyrim this would mean that the Harbinger of the Companions would not even be considered for the Thieves Guild, or that the Dark Brotherhood would not accept the services of a highly decorated Legionnaire.

Preventing someone from joining a faction because he might have done something in the past is a bit too drastic IMO. I can understand barring the player from the Thieves Guild if he kills Maven or something, but to do that because the player once stole a helmet from Niranye is a bit silly.
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Francesca
 
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Post » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:28 pm


1) Immortal NPC's.

It doesn't bother me at all. Important NPC's who die would force you to reload a saved game anyway, so why bother? But I agree about small sidequests: if the dead NPC cannot be replaced, then the player shouldn't be able to do his/her quest. The random death of essential NPCs, however (and here I consider essential the NPCs who act as big 'hubs' for an entire questline) would just be frustrating. And before you say it: no, I don't think that frustration = fun.

2) Killcams.

I wouldn't mind an option to disable them. But I wouldn't do it. I love killcams.

3) The slow and gradual transition from a 1st person game, to a 3rd person one.

I never had problems with 3rd person. I almost never use it, but not because "it ruins immersion". Honestly, I never feel really "immersed" to the point where I think that the virtual world is the real one. I'm always very aware that I'm playing a character, so I don't care if I see him/her walking around in the world.

4) The removal of skills.

I think they removed some skills because of game mechanics. They have grouped skills in three different groups, each with a "production" skill: combat has Smithing, magic has Enchanting and Stealth has Alchemy. Hand to hand doesn't fit, unless you created a fourth group and added "Synthesizing Steroids" as the production skill. Spellcrafting was cool, but it would break the magic system as it was devised. Athletics was always a useless skill in my opinion. It allowed you to run faster than a horse. Yeah, right.

5) No faction related penalties.

I actually agree with you on this one.

6) Unskippable intros.

Technically, the reason for not being able to skip the whole Helgen attack is because it is a heavily scripted scene that actually includes an element of choice (albeit a minor one). You have to decide if you follow the Imperial soldier or the Stormcloak and despite the fact that the choice is mostly superficial (it only changes the person to whom you speak in Riverwood), the game simply doesn't offer a third way. They should have scripted it so that if you skipped the whole intro, you'd be directed to Riverwood in order to proceed with the main quest.

My comments after each one of the OP's "plagues".
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renee Duhamel
 
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Post » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:34 pm

I don't have a problem with any of those things.
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Rob Smith
 
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Post » Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:22 pm

Am I the only one who enjoys the killcams?

Yeah I like them too.
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Robert Garcia
 
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Post » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:44 am

1. They could work the essential character thing better, but it's not a big deal. Oblivion had more than Skyrim.

2. Kill cams could use a toggle but I love them.

3. They are not gradually turning into a 3rd person game. At all.

4. Could be tweaked. Still a bunch of a skills there and I like it better than previous games.

5. TES has never done anything like the Stormcloak/Legion scenario you propose. Also, the guilds in Skyrim svck as there's only about 2 legitimate ones (Dark Brotherhood and Thieves).

6. Meh who cares? it's not that long. Would be nice but it's not a "plague".
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Trevi
 
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Post » Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:37 pm



5) No faction related penalties. In Morrowind, if I so much as pickpocketed a thief, I would be ostricized from joining the thieves guild from that point ever onward. So 20 levels later you need to learn from a master trainer who happens to be in the thief guild? Bad luck bro... shoulda thought about your actions earlier.


Dont agree with this. If i have a charathers with say 60+hours it would svck to have to start all over just because i did something during the earlier levels but thats just me
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Jah Allen
 
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Post » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:28 pm

Dont agree with this. If i have a charathers with say 60+hours it would svck to have to start all over just because i did something during the earlier levels but thats just me

It's called having consequences for your actions. Yeah these even svck in real life, but they are there, as they should be.
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Jason Rice
 
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Post » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:33 am

It's called having consequences for your actions. Yeah these even svck in real life, but they are there, as they should be.

"but they are there, as they should be"

are they? never seen anything like this O.o other than imperial/stormcloack decision
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Trevor Bostwick
 
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Post » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:27 pm

"but they are there, as they should be"

are they? never seen anything like this O.o other than imperial/stormcloack decision

Not in Skyrim, in the older games it was more prominent.
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Samantha Pattison
 
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Post » Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:39 pm

"but they are there, as they should be"

are they? never seen anything like this O.o other than imperial/stormcloack decision

It's one of the major things in past TES games.
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Lifee Mccaslin
 
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Post » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:59 am

"but they are there, as they should be"

are they? never seen anything like this O.o other than imperial/stormcloack decision
Notably, the three great houses in Morrowind permanently locked you out of the other two once you joined one, without careful planning the Thieves Guild and Fighters Guild would lock you out of the other one and if you committed crimes against guildmates you were expelled until you did penance (haven't done this in Skyrim, so I'm not sure if it is in place).
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Elizabeth Davis
 
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Post » Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:37 pm

Morrowind and older then. I started in oblivion :P
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Sam Parker
 
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Post » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:16 pm

I've never been careful in my planning and in Morrowind I was always the head of the Thieves Guild as well as Fighters Guild.

The Great Houses and Civil War are the only real "consequence" guilds. Morrowind didn't do a great job at this either. You could still be the Nerevarine and head of the Temple if I remember correctly. I think you could be head of the Temple and Imperial Cult too. Oblivion had nothing like the Civil War or Great Houses.
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He got the
 
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Post » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:06 am

Am I the only one who enjoys the killcams?

I enjoy them and I RP heavily in these games.
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Latino HeaT
 
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Post » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:44 pm

Another one of these threads, by the same guy, complaining about the same things.

1) Immortal NPC's. Nothing says fake, plastic, consequenceless and 2d world than a shopkeeper who cant be killed for the minor fetch quest he has. Bethesda would argue that dragons could decimate a small town... however... isnt that the whole point? A Dragon plague should be a threat to the world. Firstly, we have a choice whether to start the MQ, and secondly, wouldnt it make much more sense for Beth to program minor shopkeepers to run for cover, rather than attack a dragon with their rusty iron knife? And if you're the kind of player who likes mindless mass murder, go play GTA.

Well if someone who likes mindless murder should be playing GTA, then why would immortal / essential NPC's be an issue?

I don't have a problem with essential NPC's, I just hate when Stormcloak NPC's are essential, and I'm an Imperial, and I can't kill them.

But a hardcoe option for Skyrim that turns off essential NPC's would be nice.

2) Killcams. Now I got no problem with killcams, I think theyre a great addition to the series, the problem is having no option to disable them. For those of us who like immersion and RP'ing this is a BIG problem. Why should my scholarly mage, who revells not in combat (but has to defend himself) be forced over and over again to do WWE chokeslams on a wolf? Imagine Gandalf tombstone piledriving the Balrog. This is the vibe killcams have given me since 11/11/11.

You've over exaggerated this problem from the beginning. Killcams take 3 seconds out of your gameplay. They do not ruin immersion. Please do not speak for all RP'ers and players who like immersion, because I hardcoe exclusively and killcams are zero issue for me.

3) The slow and gradual transition from a 1st person game, to a 3rd person one. This goes back to immersion and giving the player choice. Bethesda may not know it but many of us 1st person devotees are unable to enjoy immersing ourselves with a lycanthrope character because of the forced 3rd person perspective. This pretty much cuts off a whole branch of gameplay for us, not to mention horseriding and *cough* 3rd person killcams.

I don't understand why certain things are only 3rd person, I.E. horseback riding, Vampire Lord, or werewolves, probably due to animations and such. But that hardly is a sign of transitioning to a 3rd person game. The game is still designed in 1st person, and is easier to play in 1st person.

4) The removal of skills. What was so bad about hand to hand that it got dropped from the series? Hand to hand builds were a popular and viable build. Why remove spellcrafting, ok not technically a skill but a big part of being a mage. Removing athletics means my level 60 warrior is no faster than my level 1 mage.

This is another thing that has been over exaggerated from the beginning, as most skills were not removed, as they were simply consolidated. Hand to Hand is still in the game, you can still use unarmed combat, and there are even perks and bonuses for it. Many things were not removed, just simply re-named, re-structured, or moved somewhere else.

5) No faction related penalties. In Morrowind, if I so much as pickpocketed a thief, I would be ostricized from joining the thieves guild from that point ever onward. So 20 levels later you need to learn from a master trainer who happens to be in the thief guild? Bad luck bro... shoulda thought about your actions earlier. Beth probably feel this removal of penalties improves the game, but only to the attention defecit mindset that demands an endless stream of action/reward with little thought for the world or their actions at large. In relation to Skyrim.... I should not be able to walk around WIndhelm dressed as a legion captain, its that simple.

For once I actually agree with a complaint you have.

That said, what you're wearing has never had any kind of bearing of what people think of you in past Elder Scrolls games.

6) Unskippable intros. Now I got no problem with a good cinematic intro that sets the story, but this becomes a problem for subsequent characters who wish not to become dragonborn or play the MQ, but simply wishes to enter the world. Why offer a respec option in Oblivion/F3, and remove it in Skyrim? You were correct in thinking we would get bored watching Uriel Septims death over and over and so gave us this option. Its no different for the Helgen Dragon attack. Please bring back a respec before entering the world proper in future titles.

I beleive its the finer points, the small tweaks which give us a greater sense of freedom/customisation which matter more than extra features or DLC's.

Minor annoyance, at best. Hardly a "plague".
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Juanita Hernandez
 
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Post » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:44 am

Am I the only one who enjoys the killcams?

Nope, you sure aren't.
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carla
 
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Post » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:26 am

I've never been careful in my planning and in Morrowind I was always the head of the Thieves Guild as well as Fighters Guild.

The Great Houses and Civil War are the only real "consequence" guilds. Morrowind didn't do a great job at this either. You could still be the Nerevarine and head of the Temple if I remember correctly. I think you could be head of the Temple and Imperial Cult too. Oblivion had nothing like the Civil War or Great Houses.

Pretty much this. Being locked out of the great houses wasn't really a consequence so much as it was a "pick 1 out of 3 to join".

I do agree that Morrowind did guilds better overall, faction consequences wasn't a part of that.
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Amysaurusrex
 
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Post » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:35 pm

Pretty much this. Being locked out of the great houses wasn't really a consequence so much as it was a "pick 1 out of 3 to join".

I do agree that Morrowind did guilds better overall, faction consequences wasn't a part of that.

Not only the guilds, but NPC reactions to you as well from any faction.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Reputation

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Factions (note reaction table near bottom of page)

I know that people that want to do everything with just one character would hate being locked out as a consequence, but for me it adds replay value for new character and I love it.
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Angelina Mayo
 
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Post » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:16 am

Not only the guilds, but NPC reactions to you as well from any faction.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Reputation

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Factions (note reaction table near bottom of page)

I know that people that want to do everything with just one character would hate being locked out as a consequence, but for me it adds replay value for new character and I love it.


Disposition is a nice touch if it did anything, but it doesn't...
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yermom
 
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Post » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:18 pm

Unless you haven't spent a single damned point on stamina (and why haven't you, then?) yes, your level 60 warrior will be faster than your level 1 mage. The latter will be left gasping for breath while the former zooms by him, his sprint kept up by a higher stamina reserve.

Spellcrafting can stay gone until they've made a proper working magic system, and one that rewards choice and exploration with unique spells and unique abilities that you can buy/find/steal, and vanilla spells that aren't worse than one any player can cobble up the second they hit a spellmaking altar/NPC.
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Campbell
 
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Post » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:57 pm

Not only the guilds, but NPC reactions to you as well from any faction.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Reputation

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Factions (note reaction table near bottom of page)

I know that people that want to do everything with just one character would hate being locked out as a consequence, but for me it adds replay value for new character and I love it.

You don't have to provide those links to me. I've played Morrowind. I know exactly how it works.

And while in certain ways the reputation and factions system is better than it is in Skyrim, it is not anywhere near as complex or in depth as it's made out to be.
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Austin England
 
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Post » Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:43 pm

You don't have to provide those links to me. I've played Morrowind. I know exactly how it works.

And while in certain ways the reputation and factions system is better than it is in Skyrim, it is not anywhere near as complex or in depth as it's made out to be.
Shh! You're not allowed to criticize Morrowind here!
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jennie xhx
 
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Post » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:17 pm

Shh! You're not allowed to criticize Morrowind here!

What I think is funny is how people always feel the need to "educate" me on Morrowind, as if I've never experienced it.

*Looks at signature of all time favorite games*

Yup, I've experienced Morrowind. I can't tell you how many hours I put into that game. I have plenty of stories from friends of me missing out on outings and such because I ended up spending 3 or 4 hours in Morrowind, and honestly, truly, genuinely feeling like I spent 20 minutes in it. While Skyrim has come along and quite possibly knocked Morrowind out of the #1 all time favorite game slot, Morrowind is STILL (and probably always will be) the most impactful and influential game I have ever played. Morrowind single handedly redefined what it was I was looking for in a video game / RPG, and Morrowind has given me a gaming experience that is only matched by other Bethesda titles. My top 4 (which are all Bethesda games, and not coincidentally so) are so far and above the #5 game and beyond.

But nah, I don't know how Morrowind worked. I need people to send me UESP links telling me how factions and reputation worked. I obviously don't know what I'm talking about...
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Minako
 
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Post » Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:41 am

I've never been careful in my planning and in Morrowind I was always the head of the Thieves Guild as well as Fighters Guild.

The Great Houses and Civil War are the only real "consequence" guilds. Morrowind didn't do a great job at this either. You could still be the Nerevarine and head of the Temple if I remember correctly. I think you could be head of the Temple and Imperial Cult too. Oblivion had nothing like the Civil War or Great Houses.

You could get locked out of the thieves guild depending on how you handle the fighter guild code book quest. The mages guildmaster would also give you a quest to assassinate the entire Telvanni council, but that guy was a bit crazy in the head.
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Stat Wrecker
 
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Post » Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:53 pm

Try playing "Die by the Sword". To block you have to learn to use the shield also ~but in this case, it's not just timing, it's positioning also; and you can block with your weapons... And you have joint by joint dismemberment, and on-body gore where you hit them... and full 360° sword arm control put the blade where you want it, and the game scores damage by how hard you hit!

Die by the sword shipped in 1998. (It also shipped with an animation editor that let players animate their own combat moves for attack and defense ~and map them to hot-keys.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef2HVYW4Ez4

In the 15 years since is there any game out there that does any of this? There should have been by now IMO. Even Fallout 3 doesn't have per joint limb severing.
And when DbtS shipped there was no such thing as a motion controller ~you should see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D8Jfr-sIpM.


God, I loathed combat in the game. A completely failed experiment IMO.
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Britta Gronkowski
 
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