I'll just put it out there to begin with, I began playing the Fallout Series with Fallout 3. It was great, so I decided to buy New Vegas. It was better. The logical step after those two games, in my opinion, was getting Fallout 1 and 2. I went to GOG and downloaded both. But I just can't play them.

Let me explain by example with Fallout 2.

I loaded up the game, made a melee/brute force character, and hopped in to the Temple of Trials. All pretty good as I went through it, despite the less than enthralling movement and combat systems, I was still getting into the concept of being a tribal trying to prove myself. Afterwards I was given the mission to go to Klamath to retrieve the GECK for my village, so I use the intuitive travel system to go to Klamath, here's where the game falls apart for me.

I go around the entire settlement looking for someone who knowswhere the GECK is. Noone had told me who to talk to about this, and noone in Klamath was giving me any sort of answer. In fact, I was becoming frustrated with the NPC's, who would make jokes about how the Garden of Eden was being in the arms of a prosttute, or that they've only ever heard of Geckos. I had no idea what to do, and I didn't want to look at any sort of walkthrough, because, for me, Fallout 2 is the type of game where the fun is in figuring stuff out. Looking up just what to do online would be like looking up the solution to all the puzzles in a Sam & Max game. What would the point be? But in the end I had to, because there was no way I was figuring this on my own.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed that the idea behind Fallout 2 is that I am just supposed to drift around doing side quests until by chance my adventure leads me to the location of the GECK that my village so desperately needs. I don't understand this. It's even worse in Fallout 1, where there is a time limit. Not only that, but at first the game seems like it's going to be fair and give you some inkling of what to do by sending you to Vault 15 to get the Water Chip. I went to Vault 15 and found out that the area meant to hold the chip was blocked off. This is after having bought 2 sets of rope and clearing the entire vault looking for the chip. I sulked back to Shady Sands, where people had no idea where the chip would be either, they just wanted me to kill radscorpions and raiders. I had a Vault to save, goddammit, I didn't have time to play courier for a bunch of traders.

That's my two cents, I just couldn't play Fallout 1 and 2. I wanted to go from place to place, doing what I have to do to save my home, but instead I ended up aimlessly wandering, desperately looking for some quest that would lead me to salvation.

So basically because the first two towns don't tell you exactly where to go to get the item you were sent out for you give up in frustration?

I don't get the issue. Obviously both items are located elsewhere so it might be a good idea to start searching the settlements that people in both towns will happily point you to, then move onto the settlements people in those places will point you to until you start running across some more concrete information. How else would you conduct a search? Both main quests are just excuses to lead you through the game world anyway and the time limit in Fallout 1 is far from prohibitive.

Well pay attention, how would the tribals who call it 'holy' or a tiny town in the north know where the GECK is? They say that it is n Vault 13 and that the trader in Klamath gave them the Vault 13 canteen, so you go to Klamath, ask around for Vic, go to the Den where he is, do the [censored] that has to be done there to free him, then he tells you to take him to someone in Vault City who he get's the items off... You just aren't playing the game right.

So you play an RPG that doesn't hold your hand and give up. So spoiled with the hold your hand game-play of fallout 3...

You aren't playing it right.

Follow leads that you get. Remember what people say.
The game doesn't hold your hand, there won't show up a map marker and an arrow pointing you in the right direction. In Fallout 2, she tells you to go see Vic because he might know where Vault 13 is. Vic lives in Klamath, so ask around for him. He isn't in Klamath, he's at a trader job at the Den, so go to the Den. At the Den you find out that he's held by slavers, so get hiom out of there and then ask him. He will say that you should go to Vault City. Et cetera, et cetera. Along this you will find a lot of side quests that you should and could do, which will help you learn with, er, like everything. Anyways, follow leads and remember them. Sometimes they aren't pointed out directly, but your mission to find Vic is pretty obvious as that is how the game starts pretty much. Find Vic. Oh, he isn't at Klamath, what do you do then? Find out where he is, and then find out what he has to say, and then find out what the things he has to say lead you to.

Rather than berating you for not playing the game "the right way", I'd rather suggest that you'll probably get into more if you try not to worry too much about the main quest. In both games, it's a paper-thin McGuffin hunt whose purpose is to send you from one end of the map to the other and then back again. This way the game's various towns and settlements are introduced to you, and it's in the quests they contain that the real meat of the game is to be found. Procrastinate, meander, and don't worry that every little thing you're doing isn't directly related to finding the GECK/Water Chip. If you're alert you'll pick up enough leads on your travels to get you on your way (and SavageBeatings has given you a good primer to get you started).

Funny but the reason I don't get into games anymore is they are too easy.

I miss the days where there were no quest arrows and map markers etc. The days when you'd be stuck in a game for weeks because you over thought a puzzle. Games are now about instant gratification, follow map marker to NPC, kill NPC, get cool stuff. Exploration and critical thinking? Pssshhhh....

I guess that's why I enjoyed Dead Money so much, I half expected map markers to show where the radios and hologram emitters were and was pleasantly surprised there weren't any.

The joy in completing a quest is actually having to quest for the answer.

This ^



And this ^

Still I am glad you gave them a shot. Just get over the idea the game needs to hold your hand. Fallout and Fallout 2 do not do that for you. Also give Fallout Tactics a shot as well, it does give you missions, how you do them is up to you and has a real time option.

Fallout two is bigger then Fallout so it is easy to get lost. Possible spoiler.. There is a car in Fallout 2

I didn't have that problem with Fallouts 1 and 2 but there were other things that I really didn't like about it. Ah to each there own.

Op you should not come on to this site and expect people to sympathise with you in any way. Im basiclly with you though when you first start playing the originals it can reallly be annoying but believe me once you really get the hang of it it'll really pay off, the story is awesome in both of them and the writing is awesome.

And dont let people intimidate you here either, most everybody would be glad to help you out, its just most of the people who played the originals first have a real attachment to them and sometimes get a little carried away when they're defending them.

Don't let the grumpy-style posts here scare you off, We're all (well most of us) quite nice, and if you are stuck are happy to help.

That said, you've got to bear in mind that Fallout is a dialogue heavy game that needs some detective skills sometimes - finding the crook isnt as easy as following the blip, you actually have to find the crook. Pay attention to what you are told, perhaps you're not used to the suttlety of the leads that are given.

I wasn't going for grumpy-style, more lamenting. Though I managed to land somewhere around curmudgeonly. I think that makes me old or something.

:shakehead:

The OP not only has a perfectly valid opinion which he's entitled to, but also makes a good point. Some of these follow-up posts almost seem angry that someone is having trouble adapting to a game design philosophy from well over a decade ago. But that can't be right. Because it would be kind of silly to get angry about someone having an opinion about a videogame... wouldn't it? I certainly must be misreading some of these posts, then. Because I thought this community could do better to new members than deride and dismiss their experiences.

Oh, and all of the off-topic posts have been wished into the corn-field. Not every single thread in Series Discussion needs to be a platform for someone's personal crusade...

Anyway - the OP has a point. Even back in the day, Fallout was considered a rather unforgiving series. We're now in an age where you are led through quests and puzzles much more than you used to. I don't find it at all surprising that someone who starts with Fallout 3, where you even get a compass direction to follow, has a bit of trouble with something Fallout 1 and 2, where things were left much more open - especially in the beginning before you really know what's going on.

I'd like to think that there's some form of compromise between the two methodologies, myself.

Who says that RPGs mean you dont have to rely on player skill????????????? ha!

What?

Que?

How is anything stated in here proof that player skill is integral to RPGs?

OP cannot find where to go in order to play through the MQ. is this a stat issue? no, its player skill.

You came from the newer games, which are completely different. I came from Fallout 3, and it is difficult adapting to the old. I played Fallout 1 once, and then left it for 2 months.

Then I came back, and I thought "Wow, this is amazing!"

It just takes some time to get used to. Your used to having a compass tell you where to go . But really, if you like good RPG's, it will just take some time. One thing that makes Fallout 1+2 inaccessible to most players is the fact there is no tutorial; I consider it kind of a test to see if your brain can handle the awesomeness your about to get into...

If I can make any recommendation to help you with Fallout 1, Do nothing but the main quest when you first start off. Remember, your Vault is at stake; don't veer from your mission; and that nasty day limit, there are ways in which you can extend that, and ultimately it goes away. I won't explain how, but you'll know when it happens. After that point you can take your time. What you must do in order to complete the game and find the chip is to pay attention to details and don't run through dialog trees like a lunatic.

Good luck!

RPGs aren't simulations of course the player is involved in directing the character. But the fact that some players can direct their characters to differing degrees of competence does not suddenly mean that player skill is integral to the concept of RPGs so bring on the shooter elements and minigames. There's a vast divide between the two.

I would say the player skill is merely strategic, rather than reflexive, so i guess we can agree to disagree.

Maybe I did come off as a little mean... Its not so much I didn't respect the OP's opinion I just hate it when people give up! I'm kind of compulsive I never give up when a challenge arrives, I'm more determined when things get difficult and compulsive on how to figure things out and get it done right. If I fail at something I attempt it again and again until I get it right I've always been like this even in school. When my computer screws up or when something breaks I don't give up and take to a repair shop I keep going and keep trying everything until I get it fixed. When I play a video game and can't beat a level or keep dying, I reload and keep attempting at it until I figure it out and beat it. Maybe its a personality thing, I get annoyed when people give up.

Maybe to say it in a nice way, Fallout 3 holds your hand too much, there's no challenging finding anything you just look at your pipboy and follow the blip. Fallout1/2 is by all means not an easy game, I wouldn't expect somebody who played Fallout3 to uber l337 pwn Fallout1/2. Modern fallout games do spoil us when it comes to the challenge of figuring out quest.

Fallout1/2 I wouldn't consider them a "player skill game". How would I describe its more of a thinking game or figure it out game. I'm having hard time putting my thoughts into words, but I'd consider player skill to be how well you can aim in FPS or how fast you multitask in RTS game.

I'd love to see them add in a hard core questing mode. No pointers, just the journal entries to guide you.

Well yeah but when people say no player skill they don't literally mean no player skill in RPGs. The skill level of the player is always going to affect the game in some way be it by rolling a better character or knowing not to go toe to toe with a super mutant with their bare fists but there's a huge difference between competent direction and actually performing actions for the characters which is what player skill generally refers to.

It's like how RPGs don't actually mean any game in which you play a role because that is almost every game ever made.