The Prophet doesn't seem to be just any religious mortal. Is it possible that he is an avatar of the Nine, specifically Talos? How else could he give Talos' blessing to the Champion of Cyrodiil and how else could he know what seems to be lost knowledge? Might he just be a religious mortal, equivalent to a priest, who understands the threat posed by Umaril, or may he actually represent the Nine in human form? Any thoughts about what he is, exactly? Do you believe he may have a stronger connection to Talos than he does to the others? Also, may the Champion of Cyrodiil be a reincarnation of Pelinal Whitestrake? I have heard rumors about the Champion of Cyrodiil being a Shezzarine. Any truth to those?

"Without a champion, the gods are powerless to act."-The Prophet.
now, its not all that much related to the question you ask about the Prophet, but i have to say, that is some statement there. it is stated with enough finality to it that it leaves no room for multiple interpretations, don't you think? in other words, even if they wanted to do something to stop Umaril meddling, they still need a mortal to do stuff, anything, or they are powerless to act. very limited power for the gods is they are powerless to act, like, just barge into the mortal realm and kick Umaril's you know what. most curious.


now Prophet is a... a speculations list is in order, i am not knowledgeable enough of Lore to draw definite conclusion. i just think he is a tool. in more meanings than one, maybe. anyways, the speculations list:
a)madman(formerly a clergy of sorts, or perhaps just learned enough about religions or something) gods use to get CoC's attention.
b)normal man(clergy of sorts, or perhaps just learned enough about religions or something) that gods use to get CoC's attention.
c)avatar of a god... a possibility, yes, given Bethesda made him vague enough and so open to interpretation, what with all the secret knowledge you mentioned and the blessing of Talos and all that.

considering my lack in knowledge of Lore in regards to the Prophet and that Bethesda provides no canon to some things in Lore, i think he is just that, another non-cannon-ified NPC that's used to entice CoC to undertake the quest and everything else is something for you or me to jump start our creative mind and come up with out preferred interpretation of who or what he is. or to write our own fan fiction about him and or who or what he is .

CoC a reincarnation of Pelinal Whitestrake? i am thinking no. but then again, i am not enough familiar with all the Lore, not enough to say if CoC is a reincarnation of Pelinal Whitestrake or not. Pelinal appears to you in a vision. neither The Prophet not Pelinal mention reincarnation. do any prophecies or other sources even imply reincarnation of Pelinaland? i don't know if they do, so that's why i am asking. Pelinal, amongst other things, says "Your need must be great for the gods to allow us to speak". to me, sounds like an implication of his identity being intact and that CoC is not him. or the gods are just messing with CoC's head and whatever it is that appears to CoC just poses as Pelinal.

if CoC is Pelinal 's reincarnation... communicating to self? normally not. but then again, if CoC is on his way to insanity, then who knows.

I think he is what he is a prophet, some random guy that the gods decided to bombard with visions, whispers, and knowledge so he could pass the message they were trying to get across onto the rest of the world. I'm sure he must have been very devoted to the nine for them to choose. I don't think he was trying to get the CoC's attention specifacly because then why hadn't the gods just contacted the CoC directly.

I do not think the CoC is a reicarnation of pelinal. Aren't shezzarines usualy human?

I'm inclined to think that the prophet is either Talos, or an Avatar of Talos. No particularly detailed reasoning other than there is a precident(sp?) (Wolf in Morrowind) of Talos taking an Avatar. Taken into account that the prophet never gives his name, speaks Ayleid, knows the story of Pelenial, knows exactly why Umaril couldn't be properly defeated, and can grant a very specific blessing of Talos to the Divine Crusader.

The Prophet's most likely an avatar of Talos, and the way I see it, the Prophet and the pc become the Shezarrine, once you fulfill Pelinal's prophecy.

I always figured he was Talos, if only because he looks an awful lot like Uriel Septim IMO. Family resemblance and all that.

The CoC DEFIANTLY mantled Talos through KoTN. He walked like Shezzar until Shezzar walked like him (Mantling by way of the fifth) In fact, I have been having a sneaky sensation that ALL the ES PC's have been Shezzarines. I'm not sure about that part, but I'm fairly confident.

The CoC mantled both Talos and Sheogorath? Is it canon that he/she did both, and if so, how would he/she do both? I could see some problem arising from that.

Each Shezarrine was an incarnate, but you're right about some of the pcs being the Shezarrine. Other heros, prior to the Chapetrs, like Reman Cyrodiil and Pelinal, appear to be a proto Talos.


We don't know if the two were the same, but it's likely. As for how, I'd imagine it's a matter of acting the part. An actor has taken multiple roles in one event before. Dr. Strangelove, anyone?

In fact, It wprks in The Word Merchant's theory on Sheogorath (and Mine, exept mine is less well-put together)

Is he just paraphrasing Zurin Arctus, or is there some other reason for the similarity between this quote and the Underking's comment on prophecy?

Zurin Arctus is part of Talos, so I can see why the two quotes are very similar.

Talos and Sheogorath are both Lorkhan. Mantling both of them is part of the connecting thread of Lorkhan's return that has been the subtext of Morrowind, Oblivion, Knights of the Nine, Shivering Isles, and the Infernal City.

What? Not even the Altmeri "was born when...." goes that far.

Not quite. as I see it, Talos is a Shezzarine, so in a manner he is Shezzar, but he is also Talos, which is why he isn't just worshiped as "just Shezzar" (by most people, anyway). Sheogorath is Jyggalag, who went mad when Shezzar allowed for free will by creating the Mundus and by extension mortals. There is a connecting thread between games, but that's not quite it.


"Was born when...?" Not sure I recall what that is.

Sheogorath (The Mad God): The fearful obeisance of Sheogorath is widespread, and is found in most Tamrielic quarters. Contemporary sources indicate that his roots are in Aldmeri creation stories; therein, he is 'born' when Lorkhan's divine spark is removed. One crucial myth calls him the 'Sithis-shaped hole' of the world. - http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/varietiesoffaith.shtml

Note that this event coincides with the creation of Mundus, it shook up the Aurbis, the very concepts that exist in it, a paradigm shift. From this event Sheogorath was born, not from Lorkhan.

We've been through this before, you and I. There isn't an upper limit on how many times you can apply a transitive relation, and everything is connected in AE. The only question is the number and order of connections. Lorkhan, Talos, and Sheogorath are all hypostases of Lyg.

The conjecture that all is one, even if true, just isn't relevant to the level of this discussion. On the level which all is one, Sheogorath and Lorkhan don't exist.

Sheogorath, insofar as it is Sheogorath, is not Lorkhan, insofar as it is Lorkhan.