We can prove that there were different species or sub species of Khajiit as early as the middle Merethic Era and most likley even earlier. Topal The Pilot, Father of the Niben, describes 'Cat Demons 'as far north as Lake Rumare, that walk on both four and two legs. Some writings even say that Topal taught the Beast races how to speak and dictate, although this is seen as bias Altmer propoganda. A more reasonable and realistic explanation says that Khajiit were the first race of Tamriel, before Men and Mer.

Altmer should generally be taller than most other races, and their skin should have a golden tint. It would be great if many of them had the proud and snobbish attitude from Morrowind. Their faces should be a bit gaunt, and the other elven faces as well.

Bosmer should be short, and less silly than in Morrowind or Oblivion. I like OP's idea about goat eyes, but the black eyes from Morrowind would be fine as well. They need to look more unique.

Dunmer should be pretty much the same style they were in Morrowind. I'd like them to be a bit harsh, like in Morrowind. I don't like the idea about sharp teeth. The way dunmer differ from other elves in appearance is their skin color and their red eyes, and in some cases their face tattoos.

Orsimer... or Orcs, should not look like the pigs they were in Oblivion. I'd prefer something like in http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs50/i/2009/337/9/8/Half_orc_portrait_by_LolloBoloz.jpg Their skin should also be a little darker. I don't like OP's idea of horns.

Argonians could look like a mix of the creatures in these two pictures (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/rodragon_gallery/94118.jpg, http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs44/f/2009/145/e/6/Dragonborn_fighter_by_Lileth.jpg)
Also, I don't see why female argonians shouldn't have boobs, like any other of the races. It's not like Tamriel is the real world, these are magical creatures, their origin is the Hist and that's a [censored] tree. :bonk: Do we even have any lore telling how the Argonian reproduction system works?

Khajiit... not much to add except for these (http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/286/9/4/weretiger_by_koutanagamori-d30nyog.jpg, http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/312/a/7/wereleopard_by_koutanagamori-d32f28a.jpg). These are perfect khajiit designs.
There are also several other khajiit breeds that would be cool to have in addition to these, like the Ohmes-raht... they look like a mix of elf and cat.

Bretons could maybe look a tiny little bit elven in their facial structure, but not really very much different from imperials.

Imperials are... well, they are your standard white human race. Would be great if they showed influences from roman culture, like in Morrowind... it would make them more exciting.

Redguards should look like normal black people.

Nords should look like imperials, but generally larger than the other man races. Some of them could also use face paint, like in Morrowind.

As we've already mentioned, Khajiit subspecies are based on the lunar cycle. When a Khajiit is born the form it will have in life is wholly derived from the moon. So even if two Khajiit of the same subspecies mate, their child will likely be of a completely different subspecies (and thus have a completely different appearance) unless born during the same moon form as the parents. Now, if you could, please tell me how a species can evolve over time when the physical form of each newborn is unrelated to its parents genes.

Sinister Raven is making the extremely serious mistake of getting rid of metaphysics from TES. It doesn't work that way, because in TES metaphysics ARE the way the world works. Dunmer WERE cursed by Azura, Khajiit ARE born differently depending on the moon (once again, Azura), and Argonians ARE related to tree creatures.

While I agree that most stuff in the lore is explained through metaphysics and ideologies, some of the 'explanations' are in fact mythology. Its just hard to say which.

I'm going off of UESP. In the history section it seems to suggest that the beast races were born about the same time as men but gained language at a later time.

I hope argonians will have a clear advantage in water over other races, swiming 20% faster perhaps? That'd really make them believeable water creatures

Im going off of all the in game books, which have contradicting theories, raising different explanations. Which I gave in my comment you quoted.

Edit: I'll also add that a lot of the subspecies of Khajiit only live in Elsweyr. Namely the Tanmar Forrest and Torval areas. Men and Mer are not even permitted in these places, so its hard to get factual understandings of the race as a whole.

Different races have different origin stories for the world. Unless you are suggesting that Tamriel was created multiple times over by different entities it is safe to say that a good portion of TES metaphysics is more meta than physics. I was unfamiliar with the whole morphology thing, whether that is metaphysical or just a racial trait is anyones guess. Earlier I was referencing the fact that Khajiit mythology doesn't seem present in the world in a tangible sense while Daedric gods have been extremely present.

I agree on all points. The Orc horns and Dunmer teeth were mostly improv. Just something to differentiate them from the models of Oblivion.


You didn't even know this five minutes ago and you're telling me how things work? If you have seperate opinions, that's ok. But where do you get off condemning mine?

Unless some phases of the moon only exist in Elsweyr I don't see how that could mesh with the whole 'Morphology' system. I'm not sure as to the primary source for the explanation of that system though so who knows.

Nords should have larger noses than imperials, not as large as in oblivion, just a little larger.

Khajiit morphology is definitely fact. Perhaps not all of them, but, considering the Manes are totally real, look different than other khajiit, and only born on specific moons, the way khajiit are born is very much real.

Now Argonians are different. They're more mysterious. We know Hist exist, Oblivion showed that, and Hist most likely do have a large effect on Argonians (Oblivion mentioned Argonians making huge exoduses to the Black Marsh). There's still a lot we don't know about them, though.

as for nords, i'd go with something akin to these:

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/9781/nord.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_fK6ZogVKBhI/TN7lsW5qEAI/AAAAAAAAmk0/0Q1-8GSSueI/s1600/Odin_by_yigitkoroglu.jpg

Khajiit morphology isn't tangible because the developers don't want to make 16 variants on the same race. We'll definitely see Khajiit morphology explained better when we get a TES game set in Elsweyr.

You said you've never played MW so here's a pic of a Dunmer: http://uesp.net/wiki/File:MW-npc-Jiub.jpg
And two others: http://uesp.net/wiki/File:TR-npc-King_Hlaalu_Helseth.jpg http://uesp.net/wiki/File:MW-NPC-Ordinator.jpg
And two last ones: http://uesp.net/wiki/File:MW-npc-Miner_Arobar.jpg http://uesp.net/wiki/File:MW-npc-Bolyn_Elval.jpg
Also thanks for showing me the Skyrim dunmer skin... now they just need MW's sweet voices... "Mournhold, city of light! City of magic!" you should try the game... worth all the money...

Because its rare for two of the same subspecies to mate and not have the same subspecies. Even though it can happen, it usually doesnt. Two Senche-raht are most likely not going to have an Alfiq and so on. Also the subspecies themselves are grouped and could explain how two of the same breed cant have another totally different sub species. That makes more sense than the total crap shoot of Khajiit mating practices. Another thing, id say that the beast races, or at least the Khajiit have certain mating seasons, based on their subspecies. This would insure some stability in the offspring you have.


Im not really talking about anything in this thread, just other peculiarities and contradictions that are explained in the lore through ideologies, that could perhaps better be explained through other means.

They don't need to make 16 different Khajit to choose from, but they should let us decide what breed we want by giving us the ability to change height, muscle tone, fur patterns, fur color, and eye color so WE can customize what breed we want to.

khajiit probably have reprodutory schedules based on the moon cycles and what type of sub-race is needed for a particular task, at least i would do it that way. it seems like a sure fire way to control the race phenotype at will and with it a great advantage over environmental obstacles.

"want a particular kind of khajiit for this region? no problem, we can postpone our intercourse schedule to next week"

Oh, I've seen them. Just haven't played the game.

No problem but it's worth mentioning that whether the NPC in the screenshot being assassinated is or isn't a Dunmer is still up for debate.

This still wouldnt work for all of the sub-pecies. Theres no way they are ever going to let us play as an Alfiq, or Senche-raht.

You're the one who assumed my tone to be antagonistic. I'm just going on easily available lore and common sense. If you just want to say "oh, it's magic" then fine. If you're going to speak of lore or what not then talk of lore. I had assumed you switched to discussing the whole 'morphology' angle which has Khajiit physical characteristics being derived from the moon and not their parents. If that is not your position then just state your idea.

My only reason for even taking a contradictory standpoint is that I do not wish for TES to turn into a "well I guess this works" deal where they just make Khajiit in snowy areas have white fur 'just because'. In my opinion it reduces the world to a petty mirror of the real world.

So a Khajiit's physical form is not derived from lunar cycles? Or are you saying that two khajiit mating usually have a child of the same species because they mate at a particular time and it has nothing to do with them being of that species?

Mating cycles insure sub species, racial stability. One of the many animal instincts Khajiiti have yet to drop apparantly. Take a look at the cycle chart for example. Even though every moon cycle has its own subspecies, neighboring cycles have similar subspecies. This could insure that even if a pregnancy is early or late, that your still seeing some degree of consistency.

So Khajiit do not pass physical characteristics to their children. This is what I was getting at and why I was asserting that physical evolution/adaption would be impossible for the species. It would also account for why you don't see the more bestial Khajiit around anywhere. It is odd though, cuz you'd think there would be at least a few unwanted pregnancies culminating in the presence of other subspecies around. Personally, as I've posited in a previous thread, I'd like a tiger looking Khajiit.