I've been very worried regarding recent announcements.

I have not seen anyone ask this, so i'm going to have to. Has Bethesda made an open world game designed for singular character playthroughs? Meaning are we going to be forced to play the game as a dedicated thief, fighter, mage, assasin etc... each playthrough to be able to experience everything?

The skills system looks like it could be set to penalise jack of all trade characters, and talk of limiting the ability to join factions makes it seem that Bethesda will try and force us to stick to our roles to give players several linear games distinct to our roles.

For example, going into a city with my reputation as a thief or mage will lock out physically challenging quests, forcing me to play it through a few times.

I'm a perfectionist, jack of all trades, discover and know everything player. It took several thousand hours to come as close to finishing Morrowind with perfect quest completions and as little fog of war on the map as possible (including dungeons). I in a sense ROLEPLAY a character that cannot truly die, has the ability to pick save points in his life, has no backstory or real connections to the world, and i quest to become everything i can possibly be.

I might be in a tiny minority in the player demographic, but i will be VERY upset to play without the freedoms i love.

I am on the library computer and am logging off, but i will read any responses tomorrow.

You can still get the skills up in everything, just not the perks.

I do recall that if you focus on every skill, it will just take longer to level them up, where as if you focus on a few skills like thief, it will level up faster in those skills.

I don't think they go by 'Physically challenging' or 'Intellectually challenging' standards but more along the lines of if you're in the Dark Brotherhood the Fighters Guild (Being polar opposites) will not accept you. To get the feel of every perk tho, Then yes, You need to make a bunch of different characters. But since there are over 200 unique perks I'm not really all that interested on seeing how EVERY one plays out. Maybe reading about it when I'm bored on wiki but that's about it.

Also, If you 'ROLEPLAY' you should know that realistically, Jack of all trades back in the midevil days died quick. You either specialized in one and kicked ass, Or tried to learn many and got owned by those who specialized. Besides, It ruins replay value to me just playing through EVERYTHING on one character. Make a new one, Go one route, Find new stuff. A month or so later, New character, Different route again, Find new stuff again.

i understand where you're coming from...to be honest you seem to know alot more than myself.
however, i too have my querks with regards to playing the "elder scrolls"...and also hope you
have the freedom you had in Morrowind{never played this, i had no pc} and i found in Oblivion. i hope
they keep a wide scope in mind while they finnish the game! ely

Strange. Sounds like you're roleplaying that you're playing 100% of a video game. RPGs are about making choices and sticking with them... Sounds like you want to do EVERY choice ever given to you. Jack-of-all-trades is one thing. Playing God-mode (Todd mode) is another.

How can you be a perfectionist and a jack of all trades at the same time?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_of_all_trades,_master_of_none


The way these games have gone where anything challenging disappear as you grow in levels, combined with your actions having more of an impact (also in what you can do) and new perk system which you cannot maximize everything on, pretty much suggests that you get to a certain point where stuff becomes boring and then restarts with a new character and new opportunities.

There was a slight sense of that in FONV given the route you chose to follow. But except that, each game feels extremely similar to previous playthroughs, where you have done most of the quests already. Also the static world where you now know where to find everything, doesn't make me want to play it again.

I think the biggest enemy for desired replays is the rather limited area you play in. I'll always feel like I've been there before. I'll expect mods to show up allowing what you desire, but I don't think that should be the vanilla playing style. I love replays if the game is suited for it. Being able to do absolutely everything again and again doesn't make it well suited.

Do you want a really big fable?

No. No you don't. LET THERE BE SPECIALIZING.

I kinda like that. I hope I will have to make new characters that make different choices than the other ones if I want to experience things. That of course is my style. Besides, saving the world, beating the arena, being known as the champion of Cyrodiil, and then being told that my first fighters guild quest was to kill rats just didn't suit with me.

Considering what a Jack of all Trades is you can do that. Get all the lowest rank perks for all the skills. As for doing all the quests in one play through we will just have to wait and see.

I used to be a jack of all trades player. Then I got OOO and started getting my ass kicked. I quickly got on the specialize train and started roleplaying and it was 100x more rewarding. I've since played Oblivion quite a few more times with many characters. I wouldn't want to see everything with one character because it's just not the same. I doubt you can get all the perks in one play through though and without all the perks you'll never be master of everything.

They have said though you just play and become who you want... so maybe what you want is possible, for the most part.

Being able to choose which order you do the various questlines in does not change the fact that Oblivion was a very linear game. Sure you decide in which order you travel the roads but in the end everyone reaches the same destination, experiences the same stuff, there are no forks in the road and every playthrough plays out roughly the same. It would seem your problem is not that you fear that Skyrim could become too linear but more that you fear that Skyrim wont be linear enough.

In which sense?

How is it roleplaying? How is it a character?

That is no character. That is yourself. That is taking a sledgehammer and smashing in the fourth wall. That is complete removal of immersion. The concept of 'winning' has no place in role playing. One cannot 'beat' an RPG or 'win'. Even the concept of 'quests' is obsolete by now.

That has nothing to do with roleplaying whatsoever.

This is a roleplaying game. Such a playing style does not need to be taken into account in the design of a role playing game. That's as if the Duke Nukem makers would've taken pacifists into account when designing their game. Or the Age of Empires makers, taking into account FPS players. Or the VBS2 makers taking into account average CoD players. It's just entirely incompatible.

That is, if we assume that the TES games are indeed role playing games. They are moving further and further away from that goal.

I like it that way. I ruined my experience in Oblivion by completing almost every quest as an assassin...

You should not be able to complete the mages guild quests if none of your magical skills are above 30.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Jeanne_Frasoric

OT : I have said this so many times, in so many threads, why would a spellcaster, master of all the arts, suddenly take up two handed weapons, or lockpicking? Why would a warrior who previously charged headlong into battles suddenly need to cast detect life and shield? Nothing wrong with taking a broad base of skills, but I am of the opinion that any believable character would have at least a few skills that would never be used.
Anyway you are not being railroaded, you have the choice, specialise, gain loads of perks for a few skills, and level up quickly, or use a wider range of skills, maybe miss out on some top tier perks, but take a few in more skills, and level up more slowly. I don't see any hardship there.

Whoa $1500 a pop VBS2 simulation software for the armies doesn't really qualify as a game either
Ohh... Sweet... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4R1gCGaunLA

thats why its called a role-playing-game. Because you stick to a role

I suppose you mean something like Dragon Age, where they tried to sort of make four or five games in one.
Each the same story, told from a slightly different perspective and with some unique elements.

Im quite sure that Skyrim will not be like that.
No matter how streamlined the game has become, I just think that would veer too far from the core premise of what a TES game should be.

I honestly want a good tax on jack-of-all-trades Someone that specializes in everything shouldn't be as strong as those that are more specific in their pursuits; though i agree that being one shouldn't lock you out of certain quests.

Have you not been following all the Skyrim stuff released?

In every interview they say that you play and that creates your character, you can probably get everything to level 100 and complete everything on one character, I think from what I've seen and heard.

The person you quoted said the entire mage guild questline, which would put you up as the leader of the mages, which she is far from. His point remains, if you're horrible at magic you shouldn't become the arch-mage

And thats why I am going to LOVE playing Skryim. More playthroughs= More time to waste waiting for.....to get enough mony to get BF3...or MW3. Or GOW3.

Well i agree with the OP. I love to play the same type of character, simply because it takes a long time for me to identify with a character ... If i created a good one, i just stick to him and play only with him. I had only one character in Oblivion that i really played with, not counting all the failed experiments. You basically say roleplaying is about restraining oneself to one role, for example a pure mage, or a spellsword, or a thief, and so forth. But you are restrained in real life enough. You can't do all the stuff that you want to try, you don't have enough time for it. 80 years or so are just not enough to experience everything. But in TES games i got the freedom to experience everything with just one character. And why should that be immersion breaking or "no real character"? There were always people that wanted to be the best at everything, out of pure lust for power, so why shouldn't you roleplay one? And i don't get why this should be "on the rails" gameplay, if you do everything. Of course, you generally do everything in a on the rails game, but in TES games you can choose in wich order you do it. That is not on the rails, that is freedom.

Just look at a Mage: Sure, is is specialized in magic, but magic also covers combat and stealth. Just think of absorb life, chameleon, mind control spells and physical enhancement spells like increased speed or strength and you got all the skills of warriors and thiefs covered already, so why shouldn't you play through the Fighters and Thiefes guilds? Roleplaying a character that wants to achieve godhood is a valid roleplaying theme just like playing a character that wants to become a pirate or a ninja ... True, it is an easy form of roleplaying, but also one of the most primal urges of mankind: Achieving divinty. It is related to the wish to become immortal, wich is also a common theme in fiction. Making you stick to one role just takes away from your freedom. Freedom should only go so far that it does not hurt the freedom of other beings, but since it is a game and I am the only being alive, my freedom is infinite, and thus i should be able to become a god-king. That is what TES is about: Being able to do whatever you want, including being omnipotent and omniscient.

tl;dr: TES is about doing whatever you want to do, so you should not be restricted to only a certain path except you chose so. If you want to experience the whole game with just one omnipotent and omniscient character, that is OK, everyone can choose his own playstyle. It is a single player game after all, so the game should not have limitations that can't be overcome by ingame means (without cheating or exploitation/bugs).

I want to have 2 or three unique 100 hour playthroughs and given the different archetypes and factions I think that could happen. Then I want my nitpicky search under every rock playtrough. It dosnt matter if they mash it all up so its doable on one character, cuz that dosnt mean I will

"Can't get 100% Completion? in one character" =/= "On the rails"

Not remotely.


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Personally, I've always been a fan of Jack Of All Trades characters. But I also follow the "Master of None" part of that statement. I've never had a Oblivion or FO3 character will all 100's in the skills (well, my one Broken Steel character might have, just due to the stupid level cap raise). Heck, my Oblivion characters rarely have even one skill at 100. But, then, I keep making new characters to try different things.


It's odd - with many cRPGs, I usually ended up trying for "do everything" on the second playthrough, complete with buying the hint guide. With the Beth games (MW, OB, FO3), I've rarely felt the desire to even look up stuff on the wikis.... I've never found Umbra in OB, I still don't know where all the bobbleheads or unique weapons are in Fallout 3, etc...... and I'm fine with that. More things I might stumble across with my next character.