LOL. I'm not mad at the idea, but yes I get irritated seeing the same stupid strawman arguments being bandied about, even more so when those strawmen are stuffed full of insults and cheap shots.

Xbox 1 user here and unfortunately my game isn't as flawless as yours. If this game was stable for me, then I wouldn't hate the save only during sleep option. But I get a crash to the xbox dashboard once every couple days of playing a few hours each day. I also get the odd freeze sometimes too. The game can be not the most stable, frame rate wise in some spots as well. So losing out on any progress I have had due to a crash, because I was in the middle of something and didn't have a chance to nap at 12pm in the afternoon, in enemy territory, it just doesn't work for me. Not just a game stability point, but also from a roleplay perspective. I don't want to lose an hour or more of game progress inbetween sleeps because of the game crashing. Has nothing to do with the difficulty or dying during a fight. I have zero problems reloading from my last save/sleep if I die. But i do have a major issue with losing progress because the game glitched out on me.

No, it isn't.

I'm not arguing against the save feature. In fact, I've pointed out several times in several threads that with mods coming to consoles everyone will be able to pick and choose what they like out of the system whether the base game allows it or not.

But, I dislike the whole 'casuals' verses 'hardcoe players' meme and wish it would go away.

Making a game easy is the defenition of cheating...

Exactly. I'm Xbox One as well and my game crashed twice just last night -- and it's a new toon only around level 22, so it's not like it's a huge save file or anything.

I manually save when I realize "Hm, I haven't saved in a while." NOT because I'm "afraid."

But nobody has an answer for that. Nor is there much empathy on display around here on this topic. It's so classic for a forum, yet no less dispiriting.

I'll admit, it's getting on my nerves as well. I consider myself a hardcoe gamer, but I might have to change that title to just gamer after some of these comments lol.

No. It isn't. Cheating is "acting dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage."

I doubt you will understand what honesty or fairness mean any better than you understand what cheating is.

There is no dishonesty or lack of fairness in a single-player game, unless you want to go out on a creaky little limb to claim you're trying to protect us from ourselves. Which if so, get off your limb, we don't need your protection.

You are wrong... there have been many single player games throughout history with cheats in them and the game itself even calls them cheats.

Now, I see. You're conflating a toggle with a cheat code, and evidently you're going to go to your grave insisting that they are one and the same.

You are hopeless, thus continuing to engage you is equally hopeless. Good luck with your superiority complex; you're going to need it.

I wish I could take the "casual" side on this but due to the nature of everyone arguing over if it's cheating or not forces me to the other side of the fence.

Your logic about cheating currently stands as:


"If there's no victim there's no crime."

This is not true otherwise our justice systems in the western world would be very different.

It would be cheating, but the point you should be arguing is "why do I care what some stranger tells me to do with my luxury product? Piss off..."

No superiority complex here... just logic... anyways if you cant argue anymore fine you obviously will never understand the truth...

Logic? Truth? Seriously, man. I admire your relentlessness, I do, but it so clearly comes from a place of insecurity and weakness that you aren't worth taking seriously.

The mode will be what it will be, no thanks to you -- though I'm sure that if sleep-to-save is retained you will crow from the highest rooftops that you were integral.

Cheating would be a violation of the rules. If the rules allow or even provide for something, it's not cheating. A toggle could not be a 'cheat' because the rules would clearly allow for it.

Oh look another one of these topics! That horse must be a puddle by now. In the end this issue comes down to who do you want to enjoy the new features? A select few or lots of and lots people. People against toggles want fewer people to enjoy the features. People for the toggles want more people to enjoy. Does Bethesda want fewer people or more to enjoy these features?

qft

Funny thing I have also been modding since Fo3 and ya I had crashes too, but I also learned whats safe and not safe to use in game. If your downloading mods that are causing crashes, your modding wrong.

The top modders on the nexus know what they are doing and so long as your not cluttering your files with every mod you find, the mods currently out are just the same as ones released after the GECK.

Ohh ya most people forget that current mods are made in Fo4edit and that once the geck arrives most modders will still run their mods through Fo4edit when their done just to make their lives easier.

My pc specs are in the sig, they are far greater than the required and I have had plenty of crashes before I used mods.

Surprisingly enough I get fewer crashes now than ever, but mods have nothing to do with it, im running more mods than I have during my Fo4 time (5-10). The reason for fewer crashes is Bethesda bug fixes, which have helped my game greatly.

TLDR is that in 90% case its bethesda pc version which has the most crashes, not the mods.

This I cannot "argue" against a you are quite right, my before post was with reference to using mods to make this possible.

metaphorically; our laws state that drugs are illegal, and even in a class system. Then they used a toggle system to exclude Alcohol, Nicotine, and Caffeine. Although people are still looked down upon when developing a dependency on these labelled chemicals.

I'm back on the fence if mods are excluded from the debate.

Might I also point at that... it's not even been released yet. There's no definite answer to how it would be and you might as well all be arguing about religion at this point. A prophet (dataminer) found some stuff and Bethesda said that what has been found is confirmed, not that it's all been found and this is exactly how it is. Just the proposal of it is real.

Exactly, well put.

I simply don't understand the psychology of some players that wish to deprive cool roleplay features from others when simple options would mean their personal gaming experience would not be effected at all but allow everyone to get maximum enjoyment out of this great game.

Ad hominem attacks are not welcome here and are not a proper form of debate. Please learn some logic and address the points that i am making thank you...