It's a natural response when people are actually giving your proposition genuine consideration, rather than just telling you that you're talking nonsense and ignoring you.

Either way, it's not for your benefit, it's for their's.

what's with the assumption that mods hurt the stability of the game? ^^

they don't, as long as you pay attention to which mods you use, read the instructions from the mod-authors and pay attention to your load order.

They often even patch out the bugs that Bethesda has left and improve the overall stability of the game.

I don't think anyone who plans to use mods, cares if they make the save-function toggable or not... there will be ways to remove it.

I'm not telling people the best ways to play the video games.

I'm saying my opinions.

I'm not telling people play the video games like this.

I'm saying I think it should be this way.

You have a lot of opinions about things that you have absolutely no first-hand experience of.

That's an observation btw.

There is truth in what I said, I'm a PC gamer too and have modded Oblivion, FO3, FNV and Skyrim extensively and know the crashes dirty mods can cause.

For the no armor and weapons degradation system I have experience with The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim since I have purchased it on 11.11.11 when ZeniMax Media Inc., Bethesda Softworks, and Bethesda Game Studios released it for sale. I don't like that Bethesda Game Studios removed it.

For the essential NPC's system I have experience and I don't like that Bethesda Game Studios has it ever since I purchased The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion in 2006 when they released it for sale.

That as much I can complain about. Anyways this is going off topic. Lets keep the discussion back on the Survival Mode.

It appears as though your fellow PC gamers disagree with you.

I wouldn't know about PCs, I've been a console gaming peasant for the last 27 years.

Of course not though its not of interest to me as I'm more interested in discussing the game with people who play it.

When you have played F4 and can offer me your opinion on how real life intefere's, or not, with your Fallout 4 experience I'll be interested in your opinion.

You can play Ironman yourself, just don't reload a save (if you think that's a chalange and enjoyable). Forcing this nonsense on us is actually removing options for other people.

BTW this thread is really pointless because PC gamers can mod the game to allow saves or just save through console anyway.

Yet you still seem to ignore the fact that the bugs and features of the game itself can cause crashes, save corruption, etc. Possibly even more than mods themselves.

That's why relying solely on the sleep-to-save is extremely risky. Especially if it simply overwrites the existing save rather than always making separate. Then there wouldn't be a fallback option and your character would be ruined. The latter case, always a separate save, would be a decent compromise. It maintains the core function but in case of "defecation meets the ventilation" players have the option to take step or two back and try avoiding the issue. In these games making separate saves is not an option, it's mandatory, no matter what platform you are playing on.

Couldn't agree more. The game is completely stable on the PS4. If its crashing, the bugs are caused by buggy unstable mods on your PC, not Bethesda.

Yet the h&S forum for the PS4 is full of people having problems. Explain that then.

Just because you aren't having problems doesn't mean everyone else is hunky dory too.

'I'm not having problems, so nobody else is either'

Honestly, posts like that are just going into the area of willful ignorance to back up your argument.

Forcing it on you? Who said you had to play it? You have the game available right now where you can free travel and save every 2 seconds if you like. There are many rulesets or difficulty modes in the game, play one that suits you. The one that suits me is the one they've announced, I don't want it changed, I'm not whining to Bethesda to change it, if anything they can make it even more challenging and I'd be even happier. Why make it less challenging when those modes already exist?

I've seen it crash with no mods installed...ever.

And mine doesn't crash with mods installed.

There is another difference between consoles and PC besides the mods.

Consoles have very predictable hardware while there are thousands of different hardware configurations on PC out there... with thousands of possible software/driver/os version combinations.

That's the biggest advantage of consoles.

The way i see it, is that when the Fallout 4 first came out, people were divided into at least six major groups. Of course there is those that simply do not like any of these games, hence are not on this list.

1. Critical long time Fallout/ES fans/vets, regardless of platform, who were quite disappointed about the changes Bethesda made to the game. Like removal of hardcoe-mode, karma system, making the game a shooter etc. (unwillful acceptance)

2. Long time Fallout/ES fans/vets, regardless of platform, who liked some/most of the changes Bethesda made to the game. Able to truly enjoy the game as is, tough are open for improvement. (Content)

3. Fallout/ES/Gamebryo/Creation Engine fans that mostly play on PC. The group relies heavily on using mods to "fix the game" so to speak, quoting their own words. Usually includes people from groups #1 and #2, and maybe #4 (Modders)

4. Those that love everything Bethesda comes up with, for reasons. (Crazy people)

5. Those that were interested of the series, and decided to give it a try. This group of people had less reasons to be disappointed, because they hadn't experienced the previous games. For them, the game didn't have to live up to anything. (Curious)

6. The people that just didn't know much/anything from the series, and are just confused about all the debating (Casual)

Personally, i belong to the first group. The whole point of this observation is, that it's the sole reason for all the debating. This is why catering to everyone ultimately pleases no one. This is, of course, a observation of one single individual amongst many, and most importantly based on my own opinion. I'm just happy, that Bethesda is finally making changes/additions, that finally cater to my personal interests.

Ah yes the 6 people complaining on the forums that their game is broken on the PS4 vs the couple of million that purchased the game, completed it and aren't complaining about it. Wilful ignorance indeed! Please, regale me with more tales of how broken the game is. I have 14 people on my friends list that platinumed Fallout 4 within 3 - 4 weeks, one of them did it in 6 days. Yeah, horribly buggy! Couldn't complete the game. lol

Right, and I'm Morgan Freeman.

Feel free to use my voice in your head while you read this post.

500 hours continuous? 1 crash? Impossible.

We're talking about a Bethesda game. Between games on the 360 and X1, only Bethesda games have crashed on my console far, far, far, far, far too many times to count.

No one in their right mind would want a sleep-to-save feature in a game that can crash simply by changing cells.

I sure as hell wouldn't, and if the sleep feature isn't optional, I just won't use the survivor mode. Disappointing, but less than losing hours of game play because of a broken game engine.

Actually, no. They said they will allow console users to break their saves. The only filtering they will likely do is content based. No how badly it will screw your game up.

So, it is the PC users who are whiners according to OP. Aha, striking a new low by blaming a whole user group, that's rich.

As a former so called hardcoe style must get every platinum trophy PS3 player, I understand the desire for a "pure" survival mode with all the designers features mandatory but that would be very easy to do by just making any game/console survival achievements only able to be won if you keep your mode pure in the same way Obsidian did with the New Vegas survival trophy, in which you lost the chance to get it if you ever switched off the survival features during your playthrough.

Now a couple of years on, I am a more casual player I guess, just looking to have fun in my now limited gaming time, for me the survival roleplay style features sound great, dehydration, hunger, diseases, no fast travel, more easily able to be killed etc will all vastly improve my gaming experience, just a shame if Bethesda do decide to lock these really cool roleplay features away from anybody not wishing to play in that one specific mode/difficulty.

I really don't see how anyone can oppose the idea that the more options are not a good thing in an exclusively single player game, simply it would give everyone the game they desire, which is surely the ideal.

The only argument that even makes sense to oppose options that I have seen is that some trophy hunting players feel they could not resist the temptation to not switch some features off when they need, for which my response would be, that seems more like your personal will power failure then something the player base as a whole should be punished for when options would so clearly benefit every single player of this great game.

Just to add, im a new PS4 player, purchased the console a month back to get Fallout 4 & a couple of other titles(for now) and in my first 30 hours of playing this game, I have had 4 crashes that have forced me to load from my previous save, so yes they do happen no matter how lucky some console players seem to get with their copies.

Simply, I don't wish to have to replay clearing out the same area due to my game crashing and because I chose not to make the immersion breaking choice to take a nap while enemies still wander the very near by area or same building I currently find myself wandering through.

You have come up with some amazing ideas Bethesda, so don't lock them away from a large section of your playerbase

Who plays, or even runs the game for 500 hours without shutting it down?

I'm on a PC, and not a high end one. In more than 600 hours of play I've had 2 CTDs and a couple 'closing' crashes (the game locks up when you try to exit it). I have about a dozen mods installed, so it's not a heavily modded game but it's not pure vanilla, either.

To be honest, after the problems I had with previous Bethesda games, I've been astonished at the stability of this one. I'm chalking it up to the increased memory available in more modern machines. I suspect most of the crashing with earlier games were memory related.

It has gotten so flamey here lately, I'm scared

ya I stated that once in the blocked topic that had drama all over it XD

what is super ironic is that the same type of person says things like "they gonna mod it saving anyway" yet they keep crying .. it is a new level of pointless achieved by humanity right thar

It's actually one of the "cooler" gaming forums i've visited so far

I find that most people don't want it simply because it is to hardcoe.