so what?

the reason is none of your business anyway

With that logic, Bethesda shouldn't have included any features into F4 since modders can just mod them in and we can leave other elements to the players imagination...

Forcing this on you? It's an option-able difficulty. Don't play it, ffs, if you don't like it.

Serious and straight forward question for those opposed to options/toggles as I truly am trying to understand both sides of the debate.

In what way would options/toggles that allowed more players to enjoy the features they personally enjoy without those that would spoil their gaming experience make your personal gaming experience worse due to those freedoms?

Never got an answer to this question...

Except something along the line "because i say so"

I see it as it will water the difficulty down, since you can scale what elements you want from it. Most players, myself included at times, lack any willpower to put restrictions on themselves if it isn't set in the game already. Like PC players that don't use the console from time to time (almost everyone does) to help them out. I like having the console, but sometimes I hate having it and I feel better playing the games on actual consoles because I don't have that option to cheat as easily.

I keep hearing that argument "just don't play that difficulty" Well, a lot of the things in the new survival mode I couldn't care for, simply because they ain't hard, they just add more micro-management. So, while I don't want the new survival mode, I don't want the game to be a complete walkover either (altho it already is when you get enough levels) In my case, I have the choice of playing something I don't want, or make the game super-easy "hurrah!"

I suspect it's about self control. Some people can ignore the chocolate cake in the refrigerator. Others, if they want to avoid binging on sweets have to make sure there aren't any in the house. They object because they know that if it's there, they wont' be able to control their own behavior. They'll cheat.

I understand your motives.

For me it's a bit different: I don't want to be restricted to something i can't restrict myself to. The reason i can't restrict myself is simply that i don't like it.

Would it be enough encouragement if you have to play with the options you selected for the whole playthrough? No chance to change it after character creation? One option could even be to disable the console...

I understand that, as i mentioned it in my long first post, I just think it is kind of selfiish(not looking to insult, apologies if it appears that way) for so many cool roleplay ideas to be restricted to a certain game mode just because a minority of players can't stop themselves from taking that option.

What about if they did what Obsidian did and made survival achievements only available to those who played with all survival options on for their entire playthrough, would that help those players stay more focussed on keeping their game so called pure whilst allowing those of us who just want some extra fun features to mess around with get full enjoyment from this great game?

nah your just wrong. I run mostly all cosmetic mods, i am really stable, equal of your 500 hours claim, best of all Creation Engine games honestly, F4 is just stable. Want to what is not stable, all the inherent bugs in the game. i reload quite bit because of these glitches all the time. A follower in power armor slams down on the ground in a settlement and all the settlers go crazy and open fire on them, kill-able settlers die. Those sort of bugs that cause reloads. Unfortunately there are a lot of those bugs and they can only be fixed right now by reloading.

You can't please everyone, you will only fail if you try. Bethesda needs to just follow through with their original design of the system instead of trying to please the people who aren't really looking for a challenge, don't like certain aspects, or don't have a lot of play-time to dedicate to the new difficulty. Survival is always going to be micro-managing, there's no way around that. I never had enough time to spare to play hardcoe on D2/3, but I didn't complain cause it was there or because it could have wiped hours of playtime away, I just didn't play it because I knew I wouldn't have the time to fully enjoy it.

They just need to re-balance the other difficulties and leave Survival as the micro-managing difficulty.

not gonna lie, on PC, I get freedom of console commands and mods that Console users do not get. I see their point exactly.

Well, a one time choice at character creation could easily solve that problem, so don't really see the problem in that

Yeah, while I use mods now, I had bugs and other issues before I started using any of them. My first playthrough was mod free and I ran into a lot of bugs but only 1 CTD.

Anyway, I think this topic is somewhat trollish and just going after people who want the difficulty to be togglable using an excuse like "They shouldn't use mods". So I'm out.

I agree. That's how it should be done if they want to add customization to the new mode. One time select and live with it on that character.

agree

would even make me try one or the other option.... and another one on the next run.

everytime something new to adjust to instead of "all or nothing". Would surely keep me entertained for a longer time...

Another good idea, make the options a choice before you leave the Vault for the first time at the same stage as the game gives you one last chance to change your starting special stats, surely then everyone is happy.

No temptation to take short cuts if you are looking for a super hardcoe mode experience but those of us who want the fun roleplay enhancing ideas included without going full on & risking losing game time due to crashes/glitches get our ultimate personal gaming experience too.

The only problem with it, is where do they stop. What is toggle-able? Every feature would be silly. I want to manage only eating, or drinking or sleeping...The only things that should be select-able at character creation is no saving and no FT. With an incentive to go all out with managing everything; achievements, new items, etc. Something for motivation.

Big difference between server - client games like D3 and single play games like FO4. And if we weren't talking about a gaming company (who's products I thoroughly enjoy) that has a history of buggy games, I would agree. But, since the game does crash, "save on sleep only" should probably be an option.

making things overcomplicated might hurt the game, sure.

on the other hand, this is for more experienced players (i didn't say hardcoe *g*) , so four or five selectable options wouldn't go over their head i think.

Yeah, compared to Steam forums this place is Siberia Still, this week has seen a lot of spontaneously combustible topics.

And i say that as an Obsidian Conspirator

Question - Will auto-saves still be enabled in Survival mode?

That would be brilliant. Gives everyone the option to choose what they want and still prevents abusemant of the feature.

No Fast Travel and Save only on sleep are the only two options that should be selectable as they are the two that can cause massive inconveniences. The rest (sleep, food, h20, diseases) are just a part of surviving and should go in every playthrough of Survival.

I remember one special night on the Anarchy Online forums... must have been about two hundred bans in just a few hours.

they had to shut it off after a while... couldn't delete the flames fast enough