Yay, you agree with something I agree. Now please tell me where attributes enter game-wise in your little metaphor. Oh, they don't, do they. I see a story I could make for my character, different skill level for different activities, a sudden start in the increase of another skill... nope, no attributes...

Who said anything about no strength at all? Just because there won't be a number to fixate over doesn't mean it won't actually exist in the game. It will be just another background stat, like the fBarterBuyBase value that exists in Oblivion. Which I'm sure you aren't aware has a value of 300. There are literally hundreds of such values in the game that run in the background, without the player being the slightest bit aware of them.

lol Zetro...that Kid picking up a Warhammer twice his size without anything saying he rationally should be able to do that and Killing someone levels above him in game isnt following the rules.

all Im doing, is Making a warhammer with a certain weight make the kid aggro towards me and his skills 70 and see the hilarity that ensues....that hammer should effectively keep him inplace / not allow him to run....but oh wait encumbrence is gone.

And when you first walk into his office, are you aware of all this? Or do you make assumptions about him strictly based on the fact that he is a doctor? Granted that if you were to get to know him better then those things you mention would come out, but the vast majority of people he comes in contact with will never even reach that point. They'll define him strictly on the basis of him being a doctor.

@Belanos

This is from a previous post on the first thread of this series. In case someone thinks that there has been no mention on how to fix the attributes.


"I do not advocate one over the other, but submit that both would greatly enhance the variety. If 1 attribute was raised every 5 levels, there would not be numbers in the 99-100 range. The attribute number would be more personal as no one attribute could be raised more than 10 times if one chose to raise the same attribute until he/she reached level 50.

An explanation of the multiplier:
If the average strength for all races was 35, that would mean no melee/encumbrance multiplier if you had 35 strength. However if you had a platinum sword and 40 skill rating in sword that caused that total damage to be 100 for example, a 36 in strength would mean that you would get a 1% bonus to that melee combination, so 101 damage. Someone with 34 strength damage would be 99. So those 1% s are significant with multiple hits.

Other attributes would act similarly except for luck/personality which probably should not be included. Every point above average intelligence, 1% bonus to general magic attack. Every point above average willpower, 1% bonus to general magic defense. Every point above average to endurance, 1% bonus to melee defense. Every point above average to speed, 1% bonus to walk/run speed. Every point above average to agility, 1% bonos to projectile damage. I realize that this is probably not going to happen, maybe I enjoy hearing myself type. "

Of course they do.

The first officer has had an above average strength all of his life and expects people to back down. I could extrapolate that his other stats (whatever they may be) make him all bark and no bite except on the firing range.

The second officer has quite a lot of guile, and a mind that ticks like a clock ~this guy roleplays his real life as whatever he thinks his authority figures expect. He's perceptive, and cunning (call it a kind of wisdom).

The surgeon suffers from low charisma ~he just fades in a crowd; but he's brilliant if a little bit clumsy ~his skill and practice make up for on the operating table, but he trips on things in the hall. (low dexterity ~though a high dex could have added a bonus to his surgery skill).

Didn't we go through this? Can you kill Omega? You don't know if you can't see his stats. The numbers you have are still meaningless. And no, even if you remove the whole hud from Morrowind and put GCD, the game wouldn't lose anything from its openness or character progression. WE need more visual cues instead of displayed stats. You realized this before and that TES is going for this direction, am I wrong?

Ahh thats good now how much variables are used in modeling Strength in game?
another thing how easily you can modify them in game and with scripts?

And you still haven't convinced me you have actually tried to think this through before saying my opinion is nothing.

When did I say "counting veins"? You know how I know how much I can carry? I tried to pick up certain stuff and failed... TADAAA, no need for displayed stats. Oh, but you think this might require a bit of thinking, I'm sorry, I do know how much you hate that.

And I want to think! NOT to see a damn spreadsheet saying that THAT is my character.

GAME-WISE. So attributes now only serve as a "cane" for roleplaying? I can easily make such backstories without needing help from ingame numbers.

Again with the pointless anologies. You won't be starting the game as a child, and no child in the game will be attacking you with a Warhammer.

And who says that encumbrance is gone? Just because the attribute that controlled that mechanism won't be listed in a menu somewhere doesn't mean that the mechanism has been eliminated.

You'll still have limits as to how much you can carry, it will just be handled differently.

GAME-WISE. So attributes now only serve as a "cane" for roleplaying? I can easily make such backstories without needing help from ingame numbers.

If the stats are all low and reflect someone other than the player... does that effect the quality of the simulation?

One can clearly roleplay a prisoner shacked to a wall; especially if there is an NPC shackled nearby.

But the player must know. If I were roleplaying this doctor, then I would need to know.

Yes, I remember that pointless, fallacious..."anology?" Try again. Without displayed stts, you have Fable.

This is very true (I have to do this often myself ), but it is the attributes that relate this fiction to a tangible reaction by the game engine.

What would be so different if the backstory would be handed out to you beforehand. It's the same has having to go to a menu and "check your stats" but more organic...




Why not having Attributes lead to Fable? If I recall, Fable's skills didn't go up when you used them and there were no perks besides a few little passive skills, and you could raise almost all there was skill and stat wise in the game.
Don't insult this system comparing it to such a shallow one.

But the player must know. If I were roleplaying this doctor, then I would need to know.

If we are all playing the same scenario entirely then it is playing a script and not roleplaying.

I am basing everything Im brining up on what -Todd- has said, nothing more.

What would be so different if the backstory would be handed out to you beforehand. It's the same has having to go to a menu and "check your stats" but more organic...

No you wouldn't. You would determine your character as you played the game, making decisions in dialogues and how you decided to approach quests etc. The Dark Brotherhood would be a good example. If I decided my character was morally good, then I would never get involved with them in the first place.

Did I say attributes? I said stats.

Then your post makes absolutely no sense. Fable has displayed stats.

** I have a question: Aside from the setting, what are some differences between roleplaying Sherlock Holmes and Monk?

If you think about it... its their attributes mostly.

~Actually I should have said Brother Cadfael and William of Baskerville. Lets use them instead.

No you're not. You're presuming that since Strength is out as an attribute, then Encumbrance is out as well. Even though Todd has mentioned that everything the attributes used to do will still exist in the game, just through some other mechanism.

And here is a good point. With taking out attributes, we move to all playing the same scenario. All equally mundane.