There's more to RPG characters than just a bunch of numbers.

There's more to RPG characters than just a bunch of numbers.

The difference is that by deciding attributes, you create a map for the backstory that the game engine can understand and act upon; (Whether its pre-defined, or something you invented yourself).


No... I would play the game as the character I'd determined (or as it was given me) ~that's the role.

**I was never offered the dark brotherhood quest.

The worst trend Im seeing is overt fanboyism. In past games when Beth made a stupid decision like removing something people used, there was backlash. Now people just bah like sheep and apparently dont care what they get.

Well Bethesda took them out cuz there not needed so that's how it is. They know what there doing better then everybody else so I trust them. Be sides its just more numbers that you have to figure out and noone wants to do that more just less.

Fanboyism? You're defending an old system with all you got, disregarding any and all opinions that differ of yours, accusing Bethesda of dumbing down the game and of the people defending the new system of not wanting to think. And WE are the [censored] (one's having fanboyism. Weird, the name is censored...)?

Personally I would have said the major differences between these characters are their...
1) Personality
2) Worldly Experiences
3) Education and Training

I would never think of them in terms of characteristics. To me there is little observable difference in the physical strength, dexterity, health, intelligence, wisdom or even charisma between Cadfael and William. Rather one is an ex-man at arms with a multitude of secondary skills garnered from repeated changes of profession, who expresses a strong will, anachronistic pragmatism and inflexible sense of justice. The other is an ex-inquisitor with limited practical skills but a far greater classical education, subject to long periods of lethargy and is far more religious. Cadfael relies more heavily on his intuition and insight into human behaviour, whereas William is more empirically observant and logical in his deductions. Both are charming in different ways.

There's more to RPG characters than just a bunch of numbers.

Just the opposite in fact, we won't have to break away from what we're doing to check our stats, nor will we feel we can't do something just because that particular attribute might be a little weaker than others.

No... I would play the game as the character I'd determined (or as it was given me) ~that's the role.

The worst trend Im seeing is overt fanboyism. In past games when Beth made a stupid decision like removing something people used, there was backlash. Now people just bah like sheep and apparently dont care what they get.


Not other than health and some linear crap. Seems like your type of game.

Do people still not understand representation? Seriously do people look at numbers and go 'derp, I have no idea what these squiggly lines mean?'

Exactly. So if you had a dialogue with an NPC where you had the option to respond in a polite and respectful manner or be a total jerk in your response, you would choose the option that best suited the way you envisioned your character to be. That's called role playing.

I'm advocating a complex but organic system.

Strenght controlled how much you can Carry,...Attriubtes are not in the game...H/M/S and perks are -supposed- to replace attributes.....but there are no -Carrying- skills...
I was -yay- close to withdrawing that statement..then I thought for a moment, and gave you this instead.

Action gamers dont want to figure them out, correct.

Yes, fanboyism. If Todd would have came out and said they were adding in more attributes, people would be defending that instead.

And such a system with no displayed stats wouldnt work. There would be nothing organic about knowing absolutely nothing. Its the whole reason displayed stats were invented. I dont get it, are people above glancing at a menu? Is it too complex?

Exactly. So if you had a dialogue with an NPC where you had the option to respond in a polite and respectful manner or be a total jerk in your response, you would choose the option that best suited the way you envisioned your character to be. That's called role playing.

I like my share of action games, and I figured them just fine. But do you know what? It wasn't fun. I was dissecting a game instead of roleplaying. Attributes forced me, less on Oblivion, more on Morrowind, to have a play style that didn't fit with the story I made for my character because I needed to get the attributes for his playstyle to minimally work.




I wouldn't. I always defended the loss of attributes even before Skyrim had been announced.

I dont get it, are people above glancing at a menu? Is it too complex?

We all should not be able to complete the quest that has us race against the fastest man in the town. Especially if I haven't devoted anything to my speed attribute.

Its as if magic words suddenly floated in the air ~its not something that their PC* would see in front of them... therefore its an immursion breaker.
Its a non-issue for us, but its a problem for some players.

*For others, its not even their PC, its them, and that makes it worse for them, as it dispels the illusion.

Its as if magic words suddenly floated in the air ~its not something that their PC* would see in front of them... therefore its an immursion breaker.
Its a non-issue for us, but its a problem for some players.

*For others, its not even their PC, its them, and that makes it worse for them, as it dispels the illusion.

It seems a lot of people are basing thier attribute discussion on what they were like in Oblivion/Morrowind. I can see where chasing attributes or blindly maxing all of them can lead to some displeasure, but that is not what we are promoting here.

Its as if magic words suddenly floated in the air ~its not something that their PC* would see in front of them... therefore its an immursion breaker.
Its a non-issue for us, but its a problem for some players.

*for others, its not even their PC, its them, and that makes it worse for them, as it dispels the illusion.

For all you know, the quest may be scripted in such a way that there was a chance that he'll trip on a rock and fall flat on his face, allowing you to win.

So Broken Immersion=having to think? Interesting.

I don't think that is it Gizmo. Everyone has to look at their inventory, quest log, skill tree, map at some time. So the argument that they don't want to see a menu is mute.