:facepalm: :confused: I mean...if you have a potion...or a spell or enchanted item that allows you to do heavy lifting...you know...fine thats what alternatives are all about...but you can't in this case because attributes are gone....but its not fair the a wizard not dedicated to some strenght can run even though he's hauling 4 swords 5 shields and some greaves?

If you are role-playing, you wouldn't be able to do anything you want without some hard work and perserverance. Just like real life. No-one expects handouts or goes around picking daisies all day.

Dead Space GUI is brilliant in the aspect that while you still had stats, upgrades, health and all, it would all seemingly blend with the gameworld. You have to have inventory and all, but there are ways to do it without using simple menus.

You know what I keep hearing?

Bean Counters

VS

Thrill Junky

...

FIGHT!

lol, ok ok, oversimplification, but here's the facts, the RPG genre IS slowly melding with the Action genre. Look at Assassin's Creed II (upgradeable weaponry, its a very minimalistic and simple system, but its there) or even Call of Duty with its perks and credits system. Its only natural that if Action games are compromising to RPG elements that RPGs compromise to action.

I'm not saying I'm for it, I'm just saying its inevitable. And I'll fight a loosing cause, but not a lost cause... I just flow with it. Its not THAT bad

Hey.. The Price is Right... more often than not IMO.

*Though its difficult to not read him in Vincent's voice.

Perhaps its because for many people those numbers have little or no bearing on how they roleplay their character.

Attributes are great for metagaming, where you are trying to milk the mechanics or play through tactical situations as a complex wargame. They are near meaningless in other situations where you are responding to an in-game situation where you are faced with moral or quest related choices; or simply deciding to do something fun and random.

Well Bethesda already Addressed the clunky menus and bit with ingame interactive Huds..you even check you stills looking at the Sky...there are still numbers on your skills though...

If these games had that degree of differentiation between characters then you might have a point, but they don't. In Oblivion my only option at character creation was appearance and race. And everytime I played a Breton, my attributes were exactly the same each time. It wasn't until I chose my class and birthsign that there was any differences if I wanted to play a Breton Spellsword with the Warrior birthsign or a Breton Mage with (insert appropriate birthsign here). And we already know that won't change in Skyrim other than the lack of classes and birthsigns. The only real differences were with the races themselves, and those differences were more clearly defined by their Powers and innate abilities than through their attributes.

My thoughts exactly...




I have to agree with you here, that was a rather ... not thought out sentence of him... If a wizard is weak, he is weak, can't carry all...




In one play through I tried going pure mage that didn't require potions and all that, his connection with the source of magic was strong. I could only do it if I used alchemy however, as my mana pool would be too little should I haven't increased intelligence. I could use Security, but same damage...



I know, and I'm glad about it. It's a step in what I believe is the right direction Yes, there are stats, and numbers, but hopefully I don't have to manipulate the game mechanics just to put my character in the right direction. My character ideas are so many, can't wait to start playing.

No no. I am a thrill seeker. But there is no joy in getting something for nothing. The spoils of your victory are more appreciated if you honed your character, instead of hack and slash and your dead.

and all of that has not changed save for Classes being gone, now if you want to play a breton spellsword....you put a sword and and spell in your hand.....I think Todd intended that to be a Pun of sorts, but this is even more left up to the player and less to the game to recognize the player is a spellsword

Why? Something like that would add a nice bit of flavour in a game IMO. Expect the unexpected. In real life anything can happen if two people are racing, like someone pulling a muscle etc. Why shouldn't the same hold true in a game?

I want to start saying, "Fight, fight, fight, fight!"

Well no fight going on here...just a bunch of relatively competent, tolerant peeps debating their sides...no asses on board <3

*Looks down*


I stand corrected.

well...omg WHO CARES! A part 3????? omg cmon get over it yes we all know atributes are gone

We've heard the complains and reliefs a hundred times and now you made 3 topics.... wow

You're right, you know. Fully agree. Thankfully the new system won't be the latter.










I actually like the debating going on here. While some might be more... trolly than others, it's stimulating. Makes ya "think" hehe.

I totally agree, I always had more fun when I just played the game, but then I would get to a point where I would just die all the time. After dying I would either turn the difficulty down or do the attribute grind.

I actually don't like when an RPG labels a skill or stat related answer in dialog, instead of just adding it if the number is high (or low) enough. The numbers also provide a visual/numeric reminder when returning to a game after many days or weeks (or months). In Planescape, the PC could notice that the NPC speaking to them was picking their pocket, and if agile enough could succeed at grabbing them ~or even choose to let it pass 'unnoticed', but actually study them and improve one's own pickpocket skill ~effectively picking their brain as they pick his pocket.

At other times, the PC could converse with companions, and if wise enough, could point things out to them, or help them decide on something. This not the stuff of Perks and Player awareness.

You mean like he makes a Stat check and falls if he fails?

In my Oblivion game I use the Enhanced Hotkey mod and have almost every inventory item I may need to use bound to a hotkey. And yes, I need to access my quest log and map screens, but those are largely an unavoidable game mechanism. Going into my attribute screen isn't really necessary though, yet I still find myself breaking away from my game in order to check things out.

Strange bel....I did not look at my Attributes section excessively...all that mattered to me was my inventory, and spells.

I knew what my character could do from seeing the racial descriptions, the only time I nursed my attributes menu was when I was infected by a disease or had a mod that made my attributes Matter.

Attributes were restrictive. I'll be able to mold my character even better now without them and with the perks.

So if I now have you down to only 1 complaint. I can say just put the attributes on your 3D skill Menu and we can sign on the dotted line

Then tell me: When is the number high enough for that to happen. If you are just one value below, then you can't make the same things as everyone with values superior to yours, even if just by one?
It seems like a "Oh, I see you have 10 amount of personality. I would kill you otherwise, but now let's make peaceful negotiations. Let me just kill the guy with a 9 there..."



My point exactly.

How so Dragonborn....with a straight face say how they were restrictive....when its likely you barely paid them any attention? in Oblivion you where no barred from anything for having low attributes...so I'd love to see your -thought out- explanation.

You could win at level 1. Your argument is invalid...