Sugary bread? The Philly Cheese Steak has Italian ingredients. Wet aged thinly sliced lean prime rib diced and grilled with onions and smothered in mozzarella or provolone cheese on an Italian bread sub roll. It's Italian American cuisine, just like all of our foods can be traced back to an ancestral homeland.

So you like to eat rare red meat huh? Did you know the average 40 yr old male has 5lbs of undigested red meat in their bowels? (that a study of NA and EU) Marinate your red meat, cook it fully and trim all fat and gristle and for god sakes don't eat it every day. Fasting is good for you too, take a day off from food in general every other week. That ain't no beer belly on uncle bob, he's just full of sht, because he never misses a meal.

/off topic rant

Wait, attributes are gone? I must not have been paying attention to the other 500 topics related to attributes

The two of you best take it to pm or put one another on ignore please. I won't say it again.

:shrug: Fair enough, but that's not what was shown on Google images. Of course, it's my bad for taking that to be a good guide to what the food is really like.

As for red meat: I don't eat it every day. But no way am I going to trim of all fat and cook it beyond medium-rare. If I'm going to eat it, I should enjoy it.

No but its good to distinguish PR talk from Actual workings/explanations.

Just because he's a Dev doesn't make him or anyone else in bethesda infallible, sure none of us have played the game, but we are being -told- how it supposedly works and the explanations don't add up, he left out alot of crucial factors and people are focusing too much on his "soothing Don't worry its ok" talk and not thinking about whats being said.

You don't show intelligence/Strenght/Speed/personality/ through perks. and in many reviews he's stated perks are for SKILLS, as in Rewards for the work your putting into Skills, Strenght/personality/speed/intelligence aren't skills, and the only thing going on in H/M/S is you pick one to raise after a level up.

a Health Bar doesn't say My Character can Hit harder than another or that I am resistant to this but weak to that

a Magicka Bar doesnt say how Intelligent a Character is, or their personality.

a Stamina Bar doesnt say how much a character can carry or how fast they can run how well they can dodge or time to recover from a stagger.


like i said, its fine to have faith, all you. just don't beat on people who think otherwise.

Look, just admit you think he's lying. I've already given you several examples in several different threads as to how it could be done and you spouting out what is or isn't is irrelevant because if that is what Bethesda wants them to represent then that's how it will be done. Just because you can't wrap your noodle around it doesn't make it impossible.

No, but your skill level can.



Intelligence in Oblivion only affected your Magicka bar anyway, so how does removing it make any difference? And Personality can easily be represented through your Speechcraft and Mercantile skills directly.



I can certainly see how your Stamina can effect your carry weight. And since the game will have a Sprint function your Speed can easily be represented as well. And staggering effects make alot more sense using the Block skill in the first place, with maybe a perk or two to enhance it. Everything that attributes did can easily be replaced using some other mechanism.

um no you didn't...


again a version of someone saying I haven't played it, and then giving me examples of how it works when they haven't played the game either..

Im going by what TODD is saying, not some forumite who knows next to nothing like me.


and to the poster above.


Skills does not automatically = more damage, I'd be doing more damage with a blade witha char of 80 Strenght and 90 blade than a character with 30 strenght and 90 blade.

For Stamina.


what happens when my Stamina Drops below the amount I can carry I.E NOT 0, what then? do I drop everything Im carrying? thats not how it worked in Oblivion and games prior, when you lost stamina/fatigue you didnt run/do as much damage, you didnt drop everything you were carrying because your fatigue = 100/330. again TODD says Perks are for skills, not attributes...Endurance is not a skill... in TES.


For Health

Fair enough. I didn't mean to be suggesting otherwise. My point was rather that we shouldn't put up a false dichotomy: it's either sticking with attributes, which is to stagnate with a flawed system, or to improve by getting rid of attributes. The thought was that no-one really thinks that these are the two options, but rather somewhere in between (sticking with attributes doesn't rule out improvement, nor is getting rid of attributes automatically an improvement).

I don't think it's entirely obvious that everything attributes did is still in the new system. To say that is not to call Todd a liar, but rather to suggest that he is operating with an unduly narrow view of the role of attributes in previous games. One thing that I think is still an open question is the amount of independent dimensions of character customisation. With attributes, characters could be very strong, but not agile; or very fast but not personable; and so on. Even if Skyrim calculates walking speed, encumbrance, NPC disposition, magicka regeneration rate, etc. by other means, one thing which is not clear is how independently these can vary. For instance, if walking speed and encumbrance are both calculated from Stamina, then fast characters will automatically be able to carry more (all else being equal).

Now, two points. (i) This is speculation. It might be that all these character traits can be varied independently, by some ingenious method. (ii) It is a separate question as to how this impacts upon the game's quality. Bethesda might have thought that a more streamlined and elegant character customisation system is worth the costs of a slight narrowing of the space of possible characters. Others might disagree.

Actually what your going by is what he is not saying. He says "All that functionality is there just moved to another part of the game" and you say " well, that's PR talk so i have to read between the lines and make assumptions about the things he didn't explain."

That's the difference here, my assumptions are based on him telling the truth and yours are based on him PR talking like he doesn't really know sht but what he's told.

...................lol...he's very clear in what he said, gonan qoute you from a past post









ok by that logic my strenght in Blunt weapons and one handers should gain additional damage right? oh wait, characters in Skyrim are ruled by skills and perks so even though Im insanely "skilled" with claymores my strenght with one handed and blunt weapons and even hand to hand attacks do not increase because I did not put points in them.












Health/Magicka/Stamina-Fatigue has been in EVERY game, and they represent one thing, how much the Character can do before they cannot do it anymore, they never represent WHAT the Character can do and WHY...and Todd NEVER said that Attributes are under the hood, Ever.

and yeah...worm, Im waiting for that link where Todd says what ever your talking about.

if "perks" do everything that attributes did and there was nothing wrong with attributes until Oblivion's level scaling, whats the point of even getting rid of them? Or wasting dev time on a new system? They said that the old system worked in Skyrim.

If you're highly skilled with a Claymore, why would you even want to use a blunt weapon or hand to hand in the first place?

I don't want to take issue with your general concern about how the new system will work, but I do want to pick on this little bit.

The example you raise here needs to be fleshed out a lot more before it's going to be persuasive to someone advocating the new system. It is true that in previous games, characters with equal skill in Blade but different Strength would do different damage with the same sword. But you can't use this example to argue that Skyrim is leaving something out by having characters with the same skill deal the same damage. That's just assuming that calculating damage requires both a skill and an attribute. The new system rejects that idea. The new system just lets damage be entirely governed by skill. You can't assume something the new system rejects in order to argue against it.

There are other things you might ask here: is it the case that characters with equal skill in One-Handed but different skill in Two-Handed do equal damage with a one-handed weapon? This is something we don't know yet, but it is a better question to ask.

Edit: I noticed you brought this up in a more recent post.

Perks are related to skills, and attributes were related to skills.

The only thing intelligence did was increase total magicka. You can increase magicka at level-up.
Strength gave a minor increase to melee damage. You can increase your melee skills for the same effect.
Speed we have yet to see, but I don't see why a multi-tiered speed perk can't work. Actually all you'd need is a multi-tiered perk for faster stamina regen, then increasing your stamina and using sprint more often has the same effect.
Personality helped with mercantile and speechcraft. IIRC, these two have been merged, so just increasing that one skill will work just as well.


But all your intelligence did was say how much magicka you got. So what's the difference? If anything, Skyrim can improve this by having intelligence-related perks, ones that can be spread out across the three archetypes instead of being only used for mage-types (for example, a set of perks related to knowledge of various metals and forging techniques; intelligence for a warrior that helps smithing). That's what I'm talking about with possible improvements. Being intelligent would mean selecting intelligence-related perks for your archetype(s), instead of picking an Intelligence attribute at level-up that only benefits mage-types. You could be a pure warrior, a pure thief, or a warrior-thief, and still be intelligent in a way that benefits your character and the game responds to.


I understand having reservation, and I fully admit that some of my ideas may be flights of fancy (until I start modding for Skyrim...), but what we know so far doesn't warrant the cries of the end of TES RPGs, IMHO.

Never have I said Skyrim will be the lesser for not having attributes, I'd be less Vocal if they simply said, Attributes are gone, you don't deal with them anymore, your character functions much in the way like FO3 no movement speed differences/No jump height differences/ all without the General perks that spread over multiple skills like melee weapons...because much of the combat choices in Skyrim is a melee weapon so theres not likely to be general increase damage perks because perks are for skills. atleast in FO3/NV attributes Mattered and they're trying to pitch some sale that what they removed is all of a sudden in the status Bars?(which they didn't its the Anti attribute people saying that, and all Todd said was there are no indirect increases to H/M/S, they player picks what they want increased and done, nothing under the hood.


and you can't have all encompassing Perks for Mages, because there are schools, how appealing(seriosu question) iss choosing the same type of perk for every school of magic? remember there are 280 perks for 18 skills, 15 for each, the scenario detailed just reeks of redundant perks potential so that -cant- be the case in Skyrim. Atheltics and Acrobatics are gone..so what determines speed/jump height as a skill? hmm?

I desire people to think about what they are reading, not think anyone who raises a concern is a doomsayer.

There was only a problem with attributes because of the leveling system, and that was before Oblivion too. Also when did they say the old system worked in Skyrim?

There was nothing wrong with attributes in TES games before Oblivion. there wasn't even anything wrong with them in Oblivion, just level scaling. Level scaling made (at least some of you, I never had to) micromanage your attributes.

In the German interview Todd said that they originally had attributes in Skyrim.


How much logic is there in picking a perk to make me faster, or stronger? Plus there was nothing wrong with the system, just level scaling.

aye read that too, have no idea where the article is though..can you link me? I'd like it for people that say "don't you think Bethesda thought about that already and that perks are better?"


also Like Dragon shout spell combinations that once were in Skyrim I hope These ghost Attributes are still in so that they can be modded in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db-o_HrpC-0 I think this is it.

Thank you Xar

P.S


I LOVE how he uses a Modded Morrowind in that interview lolol bright colors, MGE view distance etc etc lol


take of it what you will.


ah and once more worm in addition to the qoute about Todd saying attributes are under the hood, take a look at the video and tell me if starting at 3:50 thats not PR talk for rationalizing NOT waiting for next gen system

In essense, he states Theres not much of a difference loading into a seperate world city by clicking a door, vs just walking into the city seamlessly, and that the next generation fo consoles effectively just offer more Graphics and Npc's on screen.


hmm, k. thats what I wanted to bring up to you prior telling me I think Todd is a Liar, no I do not. second time you brought that stupidity up like it matters to the conversation at hand

good, to hell with them.

Want to know how I personally fixed attribute/level scaling etc. in Oblivion?

Set level cap of 30+Difficulty slider...And if I needed it, bound 'cursed' items.

Perks are just another form of training. If I want to be stronger or faster, I work out until I reach a certain point where I can carry more or run faster. The perk just represents the end result of your training, without having to go through the actual motions of doing so. And those are pretty bad examples anyway since we don't know how either of those will work yet. With a skill like Blade though, or whatever the new equivalent is, I can see certainly see the logic in practicing something like Flurry, where you can attack with your sword faster than you could before, with the perk representing the end result of your training.



Your opinion.



Well you were certainly in the minority playing that way. I've seen plenty of posts by people complaining that they couldn't get past level 50. And they certainly wouldn't want to accept any self-imposed handicaps while getting there.

No, that ones a fact. Since there was nothing wrong with them until Oblivion. And Oblivion had that terrible level scaling system. I already posted above how OB problems can be circumvented.