Why not? Although, not necessarily D&D clone, but derived from it in a way that fits with this series.

Why can't they be, though - made to be used in a unique way, that is? There's a world of possibilities out there, and still maiming seems to be the only choice. Why is that? And I am playing NwN2 (and lots of other games), but is that suggestion to say "Do not suggest or want for TES because there are other games"?

And still no one offers any concrete example of how that can be accomplished. You say fix them, but give no explanation of how that can be done without the game becoming just a cheap clone of some other system. The very few suggestions that have come up have been just as marginal as the way attributes were used in Oblivion.

Well sure. Of course that would be better. For whatever reason though, whether it is time/resources, game balance, disk space, or maybe they just plain don't wanna, those things aren't going to happen in Skyrim. So is it still better to just leave a useless and redundant Attribute system in the game just so you can say "hey we got Atttributes"? I certainly don't think so. You are just adding unnecessary bloat at that point.

Maybe in FO:4 or the next TES they'll do something more profound with attributes, maybe not, who knows.

They'd have to pay me for that.

Because I don't want all the RPG games I play to resemble all of the others in that genre. If I want to play D&D, I'll go play Neverwinter Nights 2. I want my games to be different from each other, otherwise my overall gaming experience becomes stale and boring. D&D based systems have already been done to death, it's time to try something new.

Its like that now.

**People like a game that they already know how to play. The problem is that to achieve this its either based on a previous (complex) game; and sold as a sequel, or series, or its simple enough to grasp at a glance .

And again, tell us how. And without the game devolving into a D&D or Fallout clone, or simply copying what can be done through some other existing game mechanism. It's time you pro-attribute people started putting your money where your mouth is instead of simply repeating your "fix attributes" mantra. If you can't show me the money, then stop argueing.

Would it really resemble the others more than it does now? I don't see how if it was developed like a TES game. Why couldn't it still be "something new"?

Not if it's simply using the same game mechanics as 10,000 other games out there. While the story might be different, it's going to end up playing out the same way.

Agree with OP. I like everyone I know and a lot of other people I have spoken to are what's often termed as a 'power gamer'. Though I know everyone isn't the fact that it is so damn irritating to get your character as powerful as possible in preivious TES games really harmed the game for me.

I like powergaming it's what makes games fun for me a lot of the time, but so much so that it detracts from the core gameplay like in Morrowind/Oblivion is too much. And especially in Oblivion, with level-scaling being so potent it becomes all the more important to squeeze everything out of each level.


Idk if it could have been fixed well or anything, I just know that without attributes is better than them being in the way they were.

TES is different from those. In this game you would find a book or a report for those things in the game world and most of the time you would just use common sense. Visual cues are more important. In each iteration, we get more of this mentality. Hudless Skyrim is a result of this goal. Next iteration will be even more immersive.

Haven't you notice this yet?

I'm glad there is a video game developer with this goal. It is my kind who would die with Bethesda dropping this goal because there is no other like TES.

There is a whole p&p RPG nation and developers which cater to that group. I don't see any problem for their future. Bethesda is doing something different here and I want them to continue.

Let's drink to the day when leveling nonsense is completely removed. :foodndrink:

The same can be done with attributes, character can also evolve even if attributes will more static then before, d20 is good example attributes can be changed at the beginning, at certain levels, have modifiers from race and traits for constant and temporally by alchemy and magic, attributes have consequences having attributes in lower of average apply penalties above give advantages, there is natural limit for attributes thats can be modified by race and traits, all from above is unusual and unnatural.

Exactly TES was always inspired by other games, even for Skyrim Todd mentioned thats BioShock plasmids become inspiration for new magic system, why not then take some inspiration RPG mechanic also, removing of attributes was too radical decision to fix flaws of last games and until Skyrim will not have any equal system thats have the same rich mechanic I will not change my opinion, sometimes devs too much relay on Alexandrian solution.

double post, please delete

I can agree with that; but its also like saying my teeth hurt, better they be pulled than left it.

That is exactly what you do in the Witcher. You find books to add to your understanding. The menu only shows what you have found out in the game.

Of course, its easy to see things go missing.

Ouch ~that takes a bite out of my hopes.

When that day comes, TES will have evolved into it's goal of being a simulator.

I wasn't asking for the same as others, more than how similiar it already is. Just more indepth than what it is advertised as, and yet fitting.

The overload of that information reminds us it is still just a game. The common sense method of TES makes it more believable. But it is still better, congrats to Witcher for being that subtle.


:teehee:


Well then, enjoy your time here during the progress.

Exactly. It already is very much the same as others, because of the inclusion of attributes like so many of the D&D inspired games, so why not set the game apart from all those and try something different instead?

Is that what you want? a Nirn simulator?


But this is like saying all cars are alike for the inclusion of wheels.

But why should the difference be made by cutting down aspects that offer so much potential? In effect, why cut down instead of finetuning. Removing attributes isn't going to make Skyrim a better game, just simpler (because of the said loss of potential).

This is a point that's long needed to be made. I think of it every time I see someone prattling on about how the removal of attributes is good because that means they won't "have to" grind for +5s.

The sort of personality who believes he "has to" grind for +5s is always going to find something in the game over which to torment himself in pursuit of ultimate powergaming. Trying to remove things that the powergamer might get hung up on is like trying to rid the world of things an alcoholic might drink.

Since daggerfall there is the whole skill increases as you use it business, witch sets it apart from other RPGs.

Perks however do not do this, D&D has perks (feats), Every Fallout entry I know of has perks etc.

Besides, why should removing features from a game just for the sake of being 'different' be a good thing? Most of the gameplay info so far has already been done by other games.

Perks from fallout for instance, dual wielding sound a lot like stonekeep etc.

And again, what potential? Explain clearly how attributes can be changed to make them effective in the game.

Well thats your personal experience, also there is no so much D&D games as you describe or you play the same games over and over so they become boring, if you want something new try hoe rules and conversions.
TES already influenced by other systems GURPS, Wizardry, Ultima.

Oh well there is no revolutions in RPG mechanics, all thous revolutionary perks was 30 years ago, how about improved original TES attribute system?
list your facts why system is bad not implementation of it and we can discuss the improvements.
Why always saying "Fallout clone"? Skyrim and Fallout have more differences then the same sides.

adding perks is not a revolution and thats mechanic was used before in "10,000 other games out there" also removing of feature just simple way to fix something and don't spare time on it, devs relay too much on this.

As close as it gets.

Make them influence more things. Strength should also effect bows and intimidation in dialogue for instance, agility could effect your chances of a critical hit more, speed also effecting the speed of your weapons, willpower reducing the effect of incoming spells by a certain degree, endurance could do the same for physical attacks.

In order to remove the training for +5's one could use a system more like daggerfall for instance. It is also possible to let attributes just add themselves automatic to your character on levelling up, receiving an increase in all the attributes whose skills you increased.

I think it is also important to have attributes because they simply make sense. It's stupid to have every character to be equally strong equally agile etc.